To All Canadians - VOTE DAMN IT!!!!!!

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obfg
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Re: To All Canadians - VOTE DAMN IT!!!!!!

#11 Unread post by obfg »

Canada does not have an elected Senate. The provincial gov't in Alberta decided to hold an election in order to determine who from Alberta should be considered for the Senate when the Prime Minister of the day ( Cretien, I believe {excuse the spelling of his name if incorrect}) made his decision. This was during a time of unrest and complaint by the west of the means of selecting Senators. But our constitution does not allow for an election of Senators. I can't remember whether or not the Prime Minister actually chose the person elected by Albertans, but he was not legally required to do so. Politically speaking it may have been wise to do so.

All Prime Ministers have, during their tenure chosen the Senators using one criteria or another. Usually they chose someone(s) who are friendly to their party, Liberal or Conservative. Sometimes just to show they are open minded they will select someone who is either independent or of an opposing party. I think Harper has done this to some degree, but all Prime Ministers have a vested interest in seeing that the upper house leans towards governments agenda.

Our constitution can be changed so that Senator would be elected, which may be a worthwhile endever. However you can be sure that other changes would also be brought to the fore. Some of which you might agree with and some you would not.
Just think of the battle over the Meech lake accord. Didn't that warm the cockles of your heart.

Of course as Alberta did ( and may still do ), the other provinces could hold elections to select suitable people to be brought forward for consideration for the Senate.

I think that might happen when hell freezes over!!! Nobody gives up power without a fight.

Back to the topic of this thread.....VOTE!!!

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Re: To All Canadians - VOTE DAMN IT!!!!!!

#12 Unread post by totalmotorcycle »

Looks like the NDP is doing well in Canada (from the news that we get over here in the UK) and the PC gov't might not be in bed with the Bloc anymore?

Liberals seem to be doing well as well.

Anyone from Canada know the polls?
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Re: To All Canadians - VOTE DAMN IT!!!!!!

#13 Unread post by sunshine229 »

Oh boy, I stand corrected!!!
Andrea :sun:

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Re: To All Canadians - VOTE DAMN IT!!!!!!

#14 Unread post by ceemes »

totalmotorcycle wrote:Looks like the NDP is doing well in Canada (from the news that we get over here in the UK) and the PC gov't might not be in bed with the Bloc anymore?

Liberals seem to be doing well as well.

Anyone from Canada know the polls?
Depends on which polls you want. Most put the neo-Cons ahead with the NDP not all that far behind them. Indeed, the NDP look to take most of Quebec from the Bloc, Libs and Harperites and quite possibly a fair chunk of BC. Alberta is not all that surprisingly is pretty much solid neo-Cons, although the NDP might give them a run for their money if the youth vote comes out strong. Ontario is a bit close to call, some polls give the neo-Cons the edge, others the Libs.

Basically, for some unknown reason, the neo-Con Harperites still lead in the polls with the NDP nipping closely at their heels. The big shocker is the Libs look to finish third. Also, they held the advance polls (actual votes) this past weekend and they had 34% increase in voter turn out from the last election. And according to some exit polls, a good chunk of those votes went to the NDP.

Oddest bit of polling news was who would make the best PM. Layton scored the highest for honesty, policies, openness and fairness. But for some reason Harpo scored the best for looking after the economy. This I find odd, the sod has done nothing to help the Canadian economy apart from giving tax breaks to mega-Corporations all the while screwing over small companies and the average person. He has not only blown thru a C$16 Billion surplus inherited from the out going Liberal Government and put back into debt...all in five short years. Seems a lot of people still believe in the fairy tale that the Harpo Neo-Cons are fiscally conservative....bullshite....they are basically reverse Robin Hoods, stealing from the poor to give to the rich all the while selling off our assets to their buddies south of the border.
Always ask why.

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Re: To All Canadians - VOTE DAMN IT!!!!!!

#15 Unread post by High_Side »

So let me make sure that I got this right:

The Conservatives appointed Senators just as every ruling party has done before them so they are out of control.

Harper runs a deficit through the worst global economic meltdown since 1929 and he is ridiculed for it. Somehow the other parties will spend more on social programs and have no deficit. Seems brilliant.

Giving tax breaks to business is a terrible idea - but yet we wonder where all of our jobs have gone? Let's give the tax breaks to the unemployed people so that they can buy cheap trinkets from China instead. After all, business is bad for Canada....

Jack Layton flies over the oil-sands (in a plane fueled by pixie dust and rainbows) and declares them "bad", and commits to cease any more development of the economic engine that is currently driving the Canadian economy. Jack also commits to spending more on everything from child care to health care and plans to pay for it with the same pixie dust that fuels his airplane.

The entitlement culture of some Canadians powers the NDP to a strong second place in the polls (and gaining) without having any memory of the ruin that said party had on every province in which they have governed. "I want what he is promising now, not what I am going to have to pay for later" seems to be the "intellectuals" mantra.

I can agree with Ceemes on one thing: Get out and vote! But for christsakes vote for anyone other than the NDP if this country is to have a snowballs chance in hell of surviving the next 4 years. We could be paying for this mistake for generations people!

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Re: To All Canadians - VOTE DAMN IT!!!!!!

#16 Unread post by ceemes »

High_Side wrote:So let me make sure that I got this right:
The Conservatives appointed Senators just as every ruling party has done before them so they are out of control.
The term you are seeking is hypocrite or in this case, Harpercrite. When leader of the Official Opposition, Harpo to the governing Liberals to task many times when they appointed people to the Senate. He promised he would never do the same and promised us Senate Reform. However, when it suited his purposes, he did exactly what he said he would not do, load the Senate with his backers. This makes him a lying hypocrite.
High_Side wrote:Harper runs a deficit through the worst global economic meltdown since 1929 and he is ridiculed for it. Somehow the other parties will spend more on social programs and have no deficit. Seems brilliant.
Don't forget, that when the melt down was in full swing and the Bank of Canada and other agencies were saying we were in a recession, Harpo denied it. He took a C$16 Billion surplus legacy from the Liberals and in five short years blew through it and drove us deep into debt. And what did he spend the money on? Bail outs to Corporations, Banks and other "too big to fail" institutions all the while cutting services to small business's and regular Canadians.

Then there are his pet big ticket projects, the F-35 fighters who's selling price does not include f'ing engines, those apparently have to be supplied by the Government of Canada. And the price of those future Hanger Queens often quoted by Harpo has been laughed at by bother US DOD and the US GIO, both say the cost per unit is double what Harpo claims.

US style for profit Mega Prisons. He still has yet to tell us the costs of these babies, nor who he wishes to run them. One thing we do not need is to copy the failed US (in)justice system, something Harpo is hell bent on doing.

And of course there was the G8/G20 spending spree. Over a Billion Canadian spent of "securing" Toronto for a weekend party of some of the most wealthiest and most powerful people in the world, a party complete with a fake lake and misappropriated funds to spruce up the riding of one of his goons.

Sad fact is, Harpo is no fiscal conservative, he is at best a reverse Robin Hood stealing from the likes of you and me to give to his cronies.
High_Side wrote:Giving tax breaks to business is a terrible idea - but yet we wonder where all of our jobs have gone? Let's give the tax breaks to the unemployed people so that they can buy cheap trinkets from China instead. After all, business is bad for Canada....
No, business is good for Canada. Trouble is, the business that Harpo supports with tax breaks are not in business for Canada or Canadians. They are large multi-nationals who will take their extra cash and pay it out as bonus's to CEO's and the like or use their extra cash to shut down Canadian plants and kill Canadian jobs in order to relocate their manufacturing plants to places such as China.

This trickle down economic theory has been proven to be a lie ever since Reagan foisted it onto the US back in the 80's. It should be noted that Bush Sr spent most of his term as POTUS vainly trying to reverse much of what Reagan did and what Harpo wants to do here.

If you want to stimulate the Canadian economy, then give the money back to average Canadians and to small Canadian firms that actually do business and put people to work here.
High_Side wrote:Jack Layton flies over the oil-sands (in a plane fueled by pixie dust and rainbows) and declares them "bad", and commits to cease any more development of the economic engine that is currently driving the Canadian economy. Jack also commits to spending more on everything from child care to health care and plans to pay for it with the same pixie dust that fuels his airplane.
This is just too silly to even comment on. I think you must be suffering from inhaling too many vapor from the tar sands. As for the tar/oil sands. Sad fact is, it is zero sum game on many fronts. First is it takes almost as much energy to crack the oil from the sands as it produces. Then there are the very real environmental issues. Even the US with its unquenchable thirst for oil considers the oil from the Fort Mac region to be environmentally "toxic".

The big question is, why should we subsidize big oil profits? Especially given the barrel price of crude these days. Harpo does not believe in welfare, expect of course corporate welfare, and when it comes to corporate welfare, Harpo's chequebook is always at the ready.
High_Side wrote:The entitlement culture of some Canadians powers the NDP to a strong second place in the polls (and gaining) without having any memory of the ruin that said party had on every province in which they have governed. "I want what he is promising now, not what I am going to have to pay for later" seems to be the "intellectuals" mantra.
What a load of bullshite. The NDP actually has a pretty good economic record, especially in BC. When they lost to the BC Fiberals (in BC, Liberals are actually neo-Con Haperites) an audit was done on the books. The Fiberals were hoping to find proof of what they had claimed about NDP financial mismanagement. Problem was, their own auditors found that the NDP were actually very good economic stewards and had left the Province in a strong fiscal position. Much egg had to be wiped off Gordo's face at the time, which probably explains why he got pissed in Hawaii and got tagged for DUI.

However, the entitlement culture is also alive and well with Harpo, only its applied strictly to those corporations that he supports. And he is the king of partying now and planning on paying later. His debt comes from borrowing, borrowing on our kids and grandkids future. Sure, lets give big corporations another tax cut, let buy a bunch of questionable fighters, let build a bunch of mega prisons and give them to some private outfit to run at a profit, lets build some fake lakes, we can pay for it all just by borrowing now and let others pay for it later. I am sure our kids will thank us for it.
High_Side wrote:I can agree with Ceemes on one thing: Get out and vote! But for christsakes vote for anyone other than the NDP if this country is to have a snowballs chance in hell of surviving the next 4 years. We could be paying for this mistake for generations people!
I would rather take my chances with 4 years of NDP at the helm then have that slime ball Harpo selling out my country to the highest Yankee bidder. And remember, I am an old Progressive Conservative from way back.
Always ask why.

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Re: To All Canadians - VOTE DAMN IT!!!!!!

#17 Unread post by QuietMonkey »

Thanks for pointing out all this stuff Ceemes... the Harper nepotism... his oligarcy rules, the USA butt-kissing cronyism... those F-35s... sort of dumping money into some American "corporate" ideal of government. This for-profit sh** when governemnt services should be for-the-people, not polluted by business interests.

Going with my simple analogies to cover the complexities of politics in as few words as possible, and now seeing how some of British Columbia is run, and what it has to deal with, in comparison to Alberta... and knowing that I'd still like to through rocks at Harper, the larger truth of the matter is that with most of the other clowns I'd want to roll boulders down on them or at least upgrade to a sling-shot.

Layton may be a decent guy, but in politics there are so many compromises, to deal with, let alone the number of crooks to get past. Then Iggy is intelligent enough, but just not in the game sometimes, not really on base. NDP -- unfotunately -- there isnt much more to consider for me, because I havent paid enough attention.

Anecdotely, two (unrelated, cruiser riding) guys I met here in the Okanagan, who are both retired RCMP officers both found the politics of there work and the government politics to be a large part of there angst in serving the people. Long stories really, but one of them is still steaming about Mulroney, let alone Harper.

re: Ceemes and "BC Fiberals" ---- spot on -- they are the worst. crooked to the core and luckily one of the biggest jerks is stepping down (with buckets of cash in hand of course.)

Harper is practical/pragmatic and pretty useless when it comes to anything creative, intelligent or different. He follows the status quo. Safe (?) -- Only in what the rational and lazy minded people see. He is a crony through and through, BUT that beiung said, it's the provincial and municipal politicians that are more sketchy and crooked than the national level from my perspective. They can get away with much more and they do. Soooo.. it's one step at a time. Leave the moron at the wheel, until you get a new set of wheels and engine (at the provincial levels). The lesser of two evils maybe.. or lesser of two risks.

In moto terms, keep the 1999 Yamaha Virago 750 cruiser, but get some new riding gear, find a nice set of slash-cut dual exhaust system, throw in a K&N filter, tune the carbs. You'll get reliable if low performance, reasonable fuel mileage, a few backfires, but few surprises. In a few more years you can buy a new Vstar 1100. (Although Canadian politicians are probably more like a worn out Harley Sportster in desperate need of a softtail chassis and Twin Cam motor) :mrgreen:

That's my 2-cents and it aint worth much more than 3 even against the weak 'merican dollar.
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Re: To All Canadians - VOTE DAMN IT!!!!!!

#18 Unread post by High_Side »

ceemes wrote:
High_Side wrote: So let me make sure that I got this right:
The Conservatives appointed Senators just as every ruling party has done before them so they are out of control.
The term you are seeking is hypocrite or in this case, Harpercrite. When leader of the Official Opposition, Harpo to the governing Liberals to task many times when they appointed people to the Senate. He promised he would never do the same and promised us Senate Reform. However, when it suited his purposes, he did exactly what he said he would not do, load the Senate with his backers. This makes him a lying hypocrite.
Fair enough. He is a hypocrite for not doing as he promised. However he is stacking the senate just like every PM before him. It's one of the crappy things about the Canadian system of government and they ALL do it.
ceemes wrote:
High_Side wrote:Harper runs a deficit through the worst global economic meltdown since 1929 and he is ridiculed for it. Somehow the other parties will spend more on social programs and have no deficit. Seems brilliant.
Don't forget, that when the melt down was in full swing and the Bank of Canada and other agencies were saying we were in a recession, Harpo denied it. He took a C$16 Billion surplus legacy from the Liberals and in five short years blew through it and drove us deep into debt.
Maybe you didn't get the memo about the world banking crisis. I'm sure that the NDP would have skated through it while all other G8 countries went in to the gutter. :righton:
ceemes wrote: Then there are his pet big ticket projects, the F-35 fighters who's selling price does not include f'ing engines, those apparently have to be supplied by the Government of Canada. And the price of those future Hanger Queens often quoted by Harpo has been laughed at by bother US DOD and the US GIO, both say the cost per unit is double what Harpo claims.
They might not be a great deal, but perhaps we should look up who signed us up for these jets in 1997. The same guys who are now wanting to see the entire deal smoked. But what will become of our aged CF-18s which will see their 50th birthday in 2020? Can you say Sea King fiasco? Play politics, cancel them now, and pay way more later. In the meantime our pilots are put at risk. Again: I don't think it is a great deal but when the heck are our politicians going to stop playing politics and get on with it?
ceemes wrote: And of course there was the G8/G20 spending spree. Over a Billion Canadian spent of "securing" Toronto for a weekend party of some of the most wealthiest and most powerful people in the world, a party complete with a fake lake and misappropriated funds to spruce up the riding of one of his goons.
Can't argue with that one.
ceemes wrote:
High_Side wrote:Giving tax breaks to business is a terrible idea - but yet we wonder where all of our jobs have gone? Let's give the tax breaks to the unemployed people so that they can buy cheap trinkets from China instead. After all, business is bad for Canada....
No, business is good for Canada. Trouble is, the business that Harpo supports with tax breaks are not in business for Canada or Canadians. They are large multi-nationals who will take their extra cash and pay it out as bonus's to CEO's and the like or use their extra cash to shut down Canadian plants and kill Canadian jobs in order to relocate their manufacturing plants to places such as China.
I'm not for giving away the farm but you have to be willing to work with business. Taxing the crap out of them is one way to make them leave. So ask yourself: what would Jack do? Would all of these jobs still be here with him in charge?
ceemes wrote:
High_Side wrote:Jack Layton flies over the oil-sands (in a plane fueled by pixie dust and rainbows) and declares them "bad", and commits to cease any more development of the economic engine that is currently driving the Canadian economy. Jack also commits to spending more on everything from child care to health care and plans to pay for it with the same pixie dust that fuels his airplane.
This is just too silly to even comment on. Even the US with its unquenchable thirst for oil considers the oil from the Fort Mac region to be environmentally "toxic".
Yet the oil sands are the #1 supplier of oil for their country. Take the energy from the oil sands out of play and we all have a big problem. Intelligent management of the environmental issues while working with business to succeed should be the agenda - instead we get morons playing politics with one of few money makers that this country still has. And the sheep believe them!
ceemes wrote:
The big question is, why should we subsidize big oil profits? Especially given the barrel price of crude these days. Harpo does not believe in welfare, expect of course corporate welfare, and when it comes to corporate welfare, Harpo's chequebook is always at the ready.
So you are suggesting that the oil sands are a drain on the economy, not putting back in to the economy what the government "gives them"? Is it dark where your head is firmly planted?
ceemes wrote:
High_Side wrote:The entitlement culture of some Canadians powers the NDP to a strong second place in the polls (and gaining) without having any memory of the ruin that said party had on every province in which they have governed. "I want what he is promising now, not what I am going to have to pay for later" seems to be the "intellectuals" mantra.
What a load of bullshite. The NDP actually has a pretty good economic record, especially in BC.
Taxing vacationing Albertans spending their oil dollars has been good for BC :catapult: Actually under the NDP's reign of incompetence BC had the worst performing economy in Canada in the 1990s.
http://www.victoria2020.com/?p=392
And then there was ONTARIO! How the hell can any NDP follower defend THAT?
ceemes wrote: I would rather take my chances with 4 years of NDP at the helm then have that slime ball c ock sucking basstard Harpo selling out my country to the highest Yankee bidder. And remember, I am an old Progressive Conservative from way back.
Despite my continual jabs at the NDP and the Fiberals I am not the biggest Harper fan, or even the biggest oil sands fan. Every one of the bastards will lie to get elected, but the scary part for me is that Jack Layton will carry through on some of his hair-brained ideas. There is no economic sense to anything he promises but people still get a warm fuzzy from hearing the message. A big shot of reality will be coming our way if he gets behind the wheel and what a mess this country will be!

And finally, for some insight in to the man himself: a parting shot at Slimey Jack.

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Re: To All Canadians - VOTE DAMN IT!!!!!!

#19 Unread post by NorthernPete »

There are three things I have learned never to discuss with people: religion,
politics, and the Great Pumpkin.

Lol. We can all argue, but the fact remains we all have our sides. Who ever is in power will allways say " not our fault, got left with this" and it goes on and on. They never keep their promises. Its all crap, but its our pile of crap. Lol

Go vote!
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Re: To All Canadians - VOTE DAMN IT!!!!!!

#20 Unread post by spydercanopus »

What's the point in voting in a monarchy? The queen will just dissolve parliament as she did the last three of them.

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