Shaft final drive

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Amdonim
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Shaft final drive

#1 Unread post by Amdonim » Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:21 am

I replaced my final drive oil today. I'm not entirely sure but I thought I saw a metal shaving or two stuck to the fill cap. It was covered in oil so it may have been something else I guess. It wasn't a lot, just a spec or two. Is this normal wear and tear? Btw the bike has just at 48000 miles, so this is only the second time the oils been changed as per the manual.

Thanks for your time.
Btw, I love the smell of hypoid gear oil in the morning. It smells like victory.

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Re: Shaft final drive

#2 Unread post by Wrider » Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:04 pm

A flake or two I wouldn't be worried about. Now if the oil starts to look silvery or if there's more than that it's time to investigate.
But at 48K on a shaftie? Shouldn't be a problem in the world!
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Re: Shaft final drive

#3 Unread post by Amdonim » Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:04 pm

Cool. The fluid was the normal blue-ish color. Pretty much the exact same color as the new stuff I put in. Thanks for the help.

P.s while I have your attention, the owner's manual said that the engine oil change interval is 8000 miles. Does that seem abnormally high to anyone else? It recommends GP 40 which I'm pretty sure is conventional. I'm a bit harder on my engine than the average rider so I've been changing it every 2000-3000. I mean I know Honda wrote it, so it should pretty much be a law of physics, but 8000 miles?

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Re: Shaft final drive

#4 Unread post by Wrider » Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:38 pm

Good to hear!
And as for your engine, not really unusual, but make sure it's saying miles not kilometers. Otherwise I'd go with whatever you're comfortable with. 8K should be fine, if you're feeling a bit paranoid, try doing it at 5 or 6K instead.
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Re: Shaft final drive

#5 Unread post by HYPERR » Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:08 pm

Amdonim wrote:Cool. The fluid was the normal blue-ish color. Pretty much the exact same color as the new stuff I put in. Thanks for the help.

P.s while I have your attention, the owner's manual said that the engine oil change interval is 8000 miles. Does that seem abnormally high to anyone else? It recommends GP 40 which I'm pretty sure is conventional. I'm a bit harder on my engine than the average rider so I've been changing it every 2000-3000. I mean I know Honda wrote it, so it should pretty much be a law of physics, but 8000 miles?
How many miles do you ride a year?
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Re: Shaft final drive

#6 Unread post by Amdonim » Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:47 pm

Between 15-20k

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Re: Shaft final drive

#7 Unread post by HYPERR » Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:11 pm

Amdonim wrote:Between 15-20k
On the newer Honda/Acura cars, the oil change interval is no longer done by mileage or time. They now come with an oil life gauge which calculates oil degradation using various data. The oil life computer usually tell the driver to change the oil at around 5000 miles. So if Honda cars need to have their oil changed at 5K, how can a wet clutched unit construction Honda motorcyle engine go 8000 miles??? Makes no sense. :boat:

Yeah I would continue changing it at the 3000 mile interval. You can go longer if you use synthetic.

I would think that an oil with 8000 miles on it , it would be awfully difficult to find neutral on a hot day at a stop. :roll:
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Re: Shaft final drive

#8 Unread post by Amdonim » Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:24 pm

Ya I agree. Ever since my first bike I've always been paranoid about oil. I double checked it, it says 8000 miles. Oh well. It's not that expensive. If it can handle that, it's $35 for a little peace of mind.

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Re: Shaft final drive

#9 Unread post by Wrider » Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:53 pm

Because it's not a high performance engine, runs a bit cooler than the average car engine, and isn't submitted to as many heating/cooling cycles as most cars are per mileage.
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Re: Shaft final drive

#10 Unread post by HYPERR » Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:55 pm

Wrider wrote:Because it's not a high performance engine, runs a bit cooler than the average car engine, and isn't submitted to as many heating/cooling cycles as most cars are per mileage.
What about the unit construction as well as the wet clutch? :boat:
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Re: Shaft final drive

#11 Unread post by Wrider » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:44 am

Honestly the wet clutch doesn't do much to wear down oil. The biggest problem you have with oil wear on a wet clutch is having it build up a lot of crumb from the discs as they wear down. It may seem like a lot of wear and pressure and all that, but compared to the conrod bearings it's nothing.
As for the unit construction, not sure what you mean??? Like how everything is in one combined on the same oil?
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Re: Shaft final drive

#12 Unread post by BuzZz » Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:26 am

Tranny gears chew up oil molecules and don't really help oil longevity, but nothing to get overly worked up about. Just change the oil at regular intervals, use decent oil and you'll be fine.
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Re: Shaft final drive

#13 Unread post by HYPERR » Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:10 am

Wrider wrote:Honestly the wet clutch doesn't do much to wear down oil. The biggest problem you have with oil wear on a wet clutch is having it build up a lot of crumb from the discs as they wear down. It may seem like a lot of wear and pressure and all that, but compared to the conrod bearings it's nothing.
As for the unit construction, not sure what you mean??? Like how everything is in one combined on the same oil?
I don't mean that the wet clutch wears down the oil per se but that most wet clutches don't like old oil. For example my KLX will get harder and harder to put into neutral when hot as the oil ages.

Unit construction is where the engine and the tranny are united in the same casing. The tranny gears will throw tiny shavings in the oil which the engine parts get exposed to. Also as Buzzz mentioned the shearing effect on the oil from the tranny gears. Then in turn the tranny gears get exposed to the contaminated oil from the engine.

I'm not really agreeing/disagreeing with you. Just wanted to know what your thoughts were as someone that earns a living doing this.
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Re: Shaft final drive

#14 Unread post by Wrider » Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:11 pm

No I know it's cool. Sorry been a "opposite of heaven" week for me so I've been a bit short.

The thing on the Shadow is that it's not being beat on usually, it's relatively low power for the engine size, and it's pretty relaxed in general, so the bike really doesn't grind down the oil like say a sportbike would. You also have less friction modifiers that tend to destroy the other elements in the oil when exposed to heat, so that helps a bit as well.
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Re: Shaft final drive

#15 Unread post by Amdonim » Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:50 pm

One of the reasons I've been so paranoid is that I do beat on mine pretty regularly. Only reason I have a shadow was because I couldn't afford the insurance on something sportier when I went to get my second bike. But I rarely ride at a relaxed pace. One of the reasons I liked the shadow is that it was rather revvy for a v-twin, and I abuse that at every possible chance :twisted:

Just for curiosity sake, would the engine's purposely lean A/F affect oil life? I'm not sure if unburnt fuel degrades oil, but I figured it could make it dirtier.

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Re: Shaft final drive

#16 Unread post by Amdonim » Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:57 pm

That last sentence may confusing. What I meant to ask was if having a leaner A/F could cause longer oil life due to less unburned fuel or are thes not related?

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Re: Shaft final drive

#17 Unread post by Wrider » Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:00 pm

Hopefully they're not related :lol: If they are you've got more problems than your oil life.

The leaner mixture doesn't really affect it too much. Maybe gives you slightly less power than you would have otherwise. But not enough to really affect oil life.
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Re: Shaft final drive

#18 Unread post by HYPERR » Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:41 am

Extremely lean condition will affect oil life by making the temp soar. It will also affect engine life as well. :laughing:
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Re: Shaft final drive

#19 Unread post by Wrider » Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:03 pm

Well if it's extremely lean sure. Other than that how it's adjusted from the factory it won't affect it that much.
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Re: Shaft final drive

#20 Unread post by Hondagirl » Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:17 pm

Yes you are right. And with the stringent new emission standards, its become impossible for manufacturers to meet it with a carburated bike anyways. 2008 was the last year Honda sold my bike(XR400 Motard), as they were no longer able to meet the stricter Japanese emission standards for 2009. So now we have all these fuel injected bikes that are running so lean that they sputter and surge, some to the point of being almost unrideable at low rpms. And unlike their carburated counterparts, it is a much costlier fix on the injected bikes. :(
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