Strange problem with 2005 HD Heritage Softail Custom

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softaildave49
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Strange problem with 2005 HD Heritage Softail Custom

#1 Unread post by softaildave49 »

I have a 2005 HD Heritage Softail Custom. It has a twin cam 88 with a big bore kit making it 95 cubic inches. It also has Vance & Hines short shot exhaust and a high flow air filter kit on it. It has 15,000 miles on it right now, and I have had it since it had 0.
I have a problem no one at HD can fix, and it has been a problem since it was brand new and has left me stranded many times over the past 6 years. Here are the symptoms:
The engine must be at full operating temperature. Also, it seems to quit running when the ambient temperature is over 95 degrees. The engine will begin popping and backfiring, it acts like an engine out of time. This lasts only a few seconds before it shuts down completely. Then, if it starts at all, it dies if you try to put any power to it. At that point, it will not run again until the engine has cooled stone cold, usually over night. Once cold, the engine will fire right up and run like a top until this phenomenon repeats itself. It could run 100 or several thousand miles before it happens again. Last time, it went 340 miles then shut down. Fired up the next day and ran around 400 miles, no break down.
Here is what HD has done to try to fix this issue:
Replaced injectors twice
Replaced coil
Rebuilt entire top end (That's why it has the big bore kit)
Replaced all fuses and relays
The problem is HD has never been able to diagnose the issue because it never does this when they have it. By the time I get it to the shop, it is running like a top and everything checks out on their diagnostics.
The engine runs strong in between the breakdowns, but the unpredictability of the bike takes the fun out of riding it. I am always anticipating the next breakdown.
If anyone has experienced this, or has a fix, I would appreciate some advice.
Thanks

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fireguzzi
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Re: Strange problem with 2005 HD Heritage Softail Custom

#2 Unread post by fireguzzi »

I would think maybe a faulty ECM. Just a guess though.
I assume they reprogrammed it when they did the upgrades but it never hurts to ask and make sure.
Have you pulled he plugs out after it dies to see if they can give some clues?
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softaildave49
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Re: Strange problem with 2005 HD Heritage Softail Custom

#3 Unread post by softaildave49 »

Hey, thanks a lot for the response and suggestions. They did reprogram after the upgrades. Just double checked that this weekend. The plugs are fine and the engine will fire right back up after it has totally cooled down. I have pulled the plugs during one of these episodes, replaced them and it didn't do a thing to help the problem. Thanks again for the reply, much appreciated.

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Re: Strange problem with 2005 HD Heritage Softail Custom

#4 Unread post by ceemes »

Weird. Heat induced vapour lock perhaps? I know my old Connie pulled something like that last year when I took my nephew to the airshow. A bloody hot day, and suddenly I am losing power, engine farting like a constipated cow with gas and then shutting down. Had it trailered to the shop and they could not find a thing wrong with her, and she has been running fine ever since. Mind you I haven't run her in the extreme type of heat with a passenger since. Near as the mechanics could figure out, it was a vapour lock brought on by the heat.
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Re: Strange problem with 2005 HD Heritage Softail Custom

#5 Unread post by totalmotorcycle »

Sounds like a heat issue. Something is heating up too much and breaking contact (electrical), that is why they can't find it IMO, as when the contact cools it re-connects again and looks perfectly fine. I bet it's something simple. What I would do is:

A. Run your bike till it does it again.
B. Diagnose electrical. (use a multi-meter). Check if ALL electrics are working by vision first (lights, signals, horn, etc). Check voltage of battery, check if it cranks (starter).
C. Get to all the electrical connections you can and take some sandpaper and/or CLR and clean ALL the connection ends in case there is rust on them. Check and clean the ECM connections as well.

I had a bike that kept dying on me in the same way, the engine would just shut down on the highway after an hour or 100 or so km's, after a year and a half of looking for the problem it turns out it was the rear signal bulb! The bulb looked fine looking at it but was rusted behind it causing a electrical short when it got hot. DOH.

Hopefully my advice is good for you as having an "unknown issue" sucks and when you go out on your bike you never "fully trust it".

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softaildave49
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Re: Strange problem with 2005 HD Heritage Softail Custom

#6 Unread post by softaildave49 »

Hey, thanks so much for the ideas and responses. I have a lot to check out this weekend. Will let y'all know if it turns out to be anything you suggested.
Thanks again!

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Re: Strange problem with 2005 HD Heritage Softail Custom

#7 Unread post by agraebner »

This certianly seems electrical in nature. An ECM would be the first thing I would suspect. BUT a lot of ECM failures are caused by high resistance or overload on a circuit it controls. These faults cause the computer to shut down from the heat when it cools of it can work again. This type of problem can be very hard to trace. As totalmotorycycle stated start with the easiest things to see first and start digging. Make sure all connectors are clean and tight. The look for somthing that might be drawing too much power. I have seen a fuel pump relay cause this type of ECM overload (just an example) you could have an issue with ANY computer input or output.
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Re: Strange problem with 2005 HD Heritage Softail Custom

#8 Unread post by CWOENG2000 »

I had the same problem and I also took my 2000 Fat Boy to several Harley dealers and they couldn't figure it out either. So, I tore my Bike apart with positive expectations because I am an Electrician in the Navy for 29 years, so this helped. My symptoms were:
1. Intermittent loss of power while engine at high RPM's which made it look like the ECM or whatever your bike calls the electronic module that supplies spark! I say this because there are several different module names for these depending on your bike.
2. The bike backfired when this happened because without spark at that high of RPM, you have to get rid of the unburnt fuel someway and backfiring is the way to do it! My friends were afraid to ride behind me!!
3. My gauges and everything would loss power, sometimes for a second and sometimes for a minute and sometimes for hours.
I will tell you what it hopefully is. It is what Harley calls your Circuit Breaker. On my 88 CU.in. FAT BOY it is in front of my rear tire underneath a plastic guard which also houses my turn signal module. My ECM is separate under my seat. Your model probably has a combined turn signal, alarm, ignition module???? Your circuit breaker is however separate no matter. It is approximately 1 " X 1/2" and it supplies main power from your battery positive through the contacts to you bike.
Anyway the part is actually in electrical terms is called a Thermal Overload (not a circuit breaker). When this heats up it opens and stops power to your ECM. You can only guess what that will do!!!! I finally found the problem after numerous hours of trouble shooting. I am sure this is what your problem is.

What happens is the Thermal overload gets build up on the contacts and causes high resistance connection. High resistance means more heat to the contact surface and will cause intermittent opening of the circuit. Hence your problem. GOOD LUCK!!!

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Re: Strange problem with 2005 HD Heritage Softail Custom

#9 Unread post by TechTMW »

Hi, did you get this problem solved?

I have a suggestion if not, and I find that the KISS principle sometimes applies in cases like yours where pretty much everything else has been tried. First off, I'm pretty sure that the softail classic has two fuel filler caps (?) Sometimes the bikes have a breather valve or diaphragm in the fuel filler cap that allows air into the tank to compensate for the fuel system sucking fuel out of the tank. Now, when these get fouled to are faulty, the fuel system will suck fuel but the air coming in is not enough to compensate for the vacuum created in the tank. This will starve the fuel system, causing the bike to run lean and eventually backfire, stall and refuse to start again. Often, you have to wait overnight while the vacuum in the tank slowly sucks in air thru the clogged filler cap to equalize the pressure. (as a side note, a bike being starved for fuel will run like a raped ape in the lean condition, but will eventually overheat and gall the pistons)

This seems like it would be kindof a longshot if you have two filler caps, but stranger things have happened - two faulty faulty filler caps is possible.

I'd suggest, if the bike stalls again, remove a filler cap and listen for the sucking sound as air rushes into the tank. Or, just replace the filler caps or the valves that control the air going onto the tank. (or if possible take them apart and clean them out)

Good Luck !
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Re: Strange problem with 2005 HD Heritage Softail Custom

#10 Unread post by 99 Road King »

I have recently been suffering from the same problem on my road king. Ride for about 10 to 45 minutes, bike shut down like it ran out of gas. I did replace multiple ignition parts without any changes. However I did notice several things during checks of the problem. First the gas tank was really hot, the gas cap when removed released a large amount of pressure, even when the cap was removed only a minute or so later it did the same thing. This lead me to the thought of vapor lock. I removed the venting tube from the tank and blew it clear with my compressor, cleaned the gas cap with brake cleaner (the cap was really dirty though it did not appear so) now the tank vents properly and also eliminated the shut down problem.

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