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Dragged a knee but still have chicken strips??

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:33 pm
by intotherain
On a 15 MPH limit curve I went a 40 indiciated to the left and dragged my knee. When I came to my bike today I saw that my left tire still has a good 1/8th inch of unused tire. I've never dragged my right knee but there is no unused tire on the right side.
Which brings up the question... is my turning technique messed up? How can one tell if it is or not?

And before all the safety freaks tell me I'm not being safe, this is probably the safest curve you can encounter. From 100 feet before entering the curve you can see 1 mile of the road you are about to exit on to, so you can see any unforseen obstacles a blind curve might hide. It's slightly downhill so you can see if there is gravel.

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:40 pm
by Ninja Geoff
Just means you can probably hit it at 42 mph and still have grip :mrgreen:

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:26 pm
by intotherain
well.. it's just weird that I've never dragged my right knee and my right side of the tire is ragged but the left side still has a bunch of tread left with dragging a knee.

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:35 pm
by dr_bar
intotherain wrote:well.. it's just weird that I've never dragged my right knee and my right side of the tire is ragged but the left side still has a bunch of tread left with dragging a knee.
It could be that you are leaning the wrong way in turns??? Not being silly, just having a hard time describing the action you might be using. Instead of getting your body "inside" the turn, you may be leaning the bike over while you shift your body mass to the opposite side of the bike

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:16 pm
by Derail
Did you push your knee out when you did this? Also could be that 15mph dragging your knee one time didn't put any wear on the tire, and you just favor right turns more aggressively in daily driving. I met a guy the other day at school that takes his bike to tracks regularly and the edges of his tires were shredded. He invited me out to join him so hopefuly I'll get some experience dragging my knee, I'm to scared to do it on the public roads around here I don't trust them :laughing:

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:48 am
by intotherain
Well... anyways I have a track day at Laguna Seca set up for next week so maybe I can get things settled there. I lean into the curves but I think I might be hanging off a cheek or two in left turns and none on right turns.

Derail: I don't ride aggressively on a daily basis. The only times I get close to the edges of my tires are in a mostly controlled environment. I would hardly call a section of road which gets 1 car a day a "public" road.

I was dragging at 40 MPH, not 15 MPH.

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:36 am
by Fast Eddy B
Let me get this straight.

You almost dragged a knee at 15 MPH?

That's pretty good. Keep trying!

:laughing:

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:47 pm
by Sev
LoL, the idea to leaning off is to keep as much of your tire in contact with the ground as possible. Having chicken strips is no big deal, and if you can get a knee down. Congrats, I've never done that.

Don't worry about the chicken strips at all. The mark of an experienced rider isn't the amount of unused tire on his wheels, rather it's his ability to navigate the turns.

I have more respect for a rider that looks smooth and controlled through the corners then one that has no chicken strips.

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:14 pm
by DivideOverflow
Yeah, if you can navigate the corner without fully maxing out the tire, it means the bike can go faster. Personally, I try to keep my contact patch as fat as possible. On my fat 190 rear tire, I'll scrape my boots (and my knees) before I get to the edge of my tires. Granted, I could raise my pegs, but that wouldn't be comfortable for normal riding.

That is a good thing, by the way. You don't really want to get to the edge of your tires unless you really have to. By the time you are leaned over that far, you are compromising your traction, and room for error.

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:25 am
by intotherain
Sev wrote: Don't worry about the chicken strips at all. The mark of an experienced rider isn't the amount of unused tire on his wheels, rather it's his ability to navigate the turns. .
heh say that to the guys around here! It's almost like the culture here. I try not to listen but it reels me in. I was almost tempted to ride in a t shirt to fit in with the rest of the gang at my school.

Anyways, I hate riding like a racer in blind curves because I think it is dumb so I take just this one corner very hard. If I fall, atleast I know there is no cows or cars to run me over.

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:00 am
by Dichotomous
the further off your seat and dragging knee you are, the less lean angle you need for any given speed because your weight is shifted to the inside of the angle. so basically, if you had not dragged knee, you would have met your tires limit, and maybe passed it, and thats the scarey part on the street. I found no strips on my last set of tires and decided I needed to calm down in the corners

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:54 pm
by Sev
intotherain wrote:
Sev wrote: Don't worry about the chicken strips at all. The mark of an experienced rider isn't the amount of unused tire on his wheels, rather it's his ability to navigate the turns. .
heh say that to the guys around here! It's almost like the culture here. I try not to listen but it reels me in. I was almost tempted to ride in a t shirt to fit in with the rest of the gang at my school.

Anyways, I hate riding like a racer in blind curves because I think it is dumb so I take just this one corner very hard. If I fall, atleast I know there is no cows or cars to run me over.
Like I said, the mark of an experienced rider :D hahaha.

Personally, I know I'll never be the fastest, but I don't normally have trouble catching or passing the guys who think they're fast.

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:50 pm
by Shorts
Dichotomous wrote:the further off your seat and dragging knee you are, the less lean angle you need for any given speed because your weight is shifted to the inside of the angle. so basically, if you had not dragged knee, you would have met your tires limit, and maybe passed it, and thats the scarey part on the street. I found no strips on my last set of tires and decided I needed to calm down in the corners

I agree.

DH on his Ducati has his strips all about worn. Funny thing is, he's a fairly straight laced rider. Which I think is an example of what Dichotomous is describing here.

This last ride yesterday we took curves faster than posted, I still have lean angle on the bike and my tires...DH is on the edge with his and the fat tire out back. I winced a few times checking my rear views as he's really pressing to make the curve. I guess he/we should slow down or start moving on the seat :lol:

What about tire width. Can anyone elaborate more on how that would also elicit the responses it does in regards to lean angles in corners?

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:37 pm
by hi-side
My guess is that your body position is screwed up.. on both sides.

When you lean off your spine should remain parallel to the centerline of the bike. Your inside elbow should point down. You should have no weight on your hands...

It should look alot like this...

Image

I'm the instructor in the back, spine is parallel to the centerline of the bike but over to the side... watching my student (who also happens to be an 8x amatuer regional champion in California) while also watching my own line.

Image
Me again #161 racing in Las Vegas... note the body position

And then going the opposite direction... just because its a cool pic :lol:
Image

Again, the California Superbike School teaches proper body position. I highly recommend it.

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:57 am
by Jadien
^^^^ I can't wait until I'm that good. Experienced Rider Course, here I come! (Yes, I know that the ERC won't teach me to do that, but it's the next step in the sequence.)

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:01 am
by shalihe74
Ooooh, that's just wicked. :drool2: So want a track day... :drool2:

And good teaching, too. I'm going to have to work on keeping my spine aligned when leaning. :)

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:31 am
by hi-side
You guys in Arizona, go out to Firebird. They have track days all the time. The beginner's group is a great place to start. I used to be an instructor for both the track orgs there as well. There is also racing there at Firebird. Ask any of the guys at the track about me. I raced there for 10 years - Hi-Side Racing (Terry). The track days also have instuctors for free, just ask.

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:15 pm
by Jadien
hi-side wrote:You guys in Arizona, go out to Firebird. They have track days all the time. The beginner's group is a great place to start. I used to be an instructor for both the track orgs there as well. There is also racing there at Firebird. Ask any of the guys at the track about me. I raced there for 10 years - Hi-Side Racing (Terry). The track days also have instuctors for free, just ask.
You mean for T.E.A.M. AZ? I've been thinking about going to one of those, but I want to get a solid year on a machine before I do that.

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:07 pm
by hi-side
TEAM Az does track days as well as AZ track days.

TEAM is good because all of the instructors in the beginner group are all MSF instructors so you not only get a good base, but they help you take it to the next level. Jack runs the track days as well as CCS-SW, the local race org and is a really good guy (and his wife is outstanding :shock: ) and Aaron is one fast little punk... and you can tell him I said that :lol:

I was the guy that the MSF instructors came to to go faster and I worked with the guys in the medium and fast groups all the way up to expert level racers.

Ted runs AZ track days and its also a good group of people.

And I'll be back in Phoenix in the spring and I'd be glad to introduce you around the paddock if you want.

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:24 pm
by shalihe74
A good buddy of mine is the director of rider training for AZTrackDay, and I've been meaning to do a day with them for a while now. It's just a matter of timing. :( They have one this Saturday but a) I need new tires (mine are nicely squared off. boo hoo.) and b) I have a prior commitment. Hopefully I can squeeze in one of the November dates...