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Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 7:25 am
by Peter Y
Koss wrote: So are you saying they are as closed minded as us Americans? hrm? Because we can't possibly understand all of "europe"... although there are european countries that have this tiered licensing system?
Just some food for thought.
Very fair comments on your side. I think the way you deliver your opinion is just as important as the opinion itsself. This was constructive and non confrontational.

Due to my work ive been fortunate to live in over five different countries and to your point the systems are different. There are tiered systems, restricted license options and then the no restriction type. A lot of your views obviously depend on "What the norm" is in your country. I respect all of these and they have pro's and con's in all of them. My frustration was that when I made a comment where there were several criteria's influencing the outcome I was "bombarded" with passionate objection.

They have some pretty funky 250CC supersports in the UK for example that could do a lot of damage should be caught in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong speed.

Anyway good comments, good points and thanks for not being fanatical.

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:39 am
by Koss
Peter Y wrote: A lot of your views obviously depend on "What the norm" is in your country. I respect all of these and they have pro's and con's in all of them.

They have some pretty funky 250CC supersports in the UK for example that could do a lot of damage should be caught in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong speed.

Anyway good comments, good points and thanks for not being fanatical.
Actually, I've lived in england, germany, and jordan. Its not just my view as an american.

Yes, even a 50cc scooter can get you into serious trouble if your not on top of your surroundings and riding.

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:00 pm
by balb1427
just thought I'd let you know that this article has influenced me not to go for the 600 series right away. I am 16 and hopefully going to get some kind of bike before I graduate from High School. I don't like any of the Ninja Series so I think once i get a solid financial base, I'll get the 500cc Suzuki that was mentioned in the article. Thanks for the advice

-Brian

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:07 am
by jackc34
balb1427 wrote:just thought I'd let you know that this article has influenced me not to go for the 600 series right away. I am 16 and hopefully going to get some kind of bike before I graduate from High School. I don't like any of the Ninja Series so I think once i get a solid financial base, I'll get the 500cc Suzuki that was mentioned in the article. Thanks for the advice

-Brian
Well,500cc Isn't that much smaller than a 600cc,when you consider that most 600cc bikes are infact around the 596 to 599cc and are just considered a 600cc,

If you been riding awhile a 499cc would be fine,but just starting I'm going with a 250cc which is really like a 249cc,mainly because of the price and insurance,here's my qoutes from gieco,the 600cc honda cbr was $250 a month insurance,the United motors 250cc is $100 a month,that's 150 cheaper and when you ad the car insurance i have to pay as well,my total insurance a month is $200 with the car and the UM250cc,as compared to $350 with the car and honda 600cc,That's a big diff when you don't have a very large income.

So before you go for the bigger bike,just consider the payments on the bike,and the Insurance,My UM250cc payments are $50 a month for 12 months,then $75 a month after 12 months.Honda 600cc,$50 a month for 12 months,then $150 after 12 months,

So here's how it looks,$250 car payment,$75 bike payment,$200 insurance for car and bike combined,

That's $525 a month in payments,for the UM250cc and my car and insurance,

Honda,$250 CAR,BIKE $150,CAR INSURANCE AND BIKE INSURANCE COMBINED,$350,

That's $750 a month,so I save $225,That covers gas,and food on road trips,not to mention the rooms at motels on the trips,So that's why I went with a smaller bike,The cost and the fact that I'm a beginner and I'm not looking to race,I just wanted a nice bike,that I'm comfertable with that looks good and runs good,that doesn't cost me an arm and a leg,In payments or from not being ready to handle the power of a bike "O Ring" bike,resulting in my leg underneath a tractor trailer,my arm cought in the sewer grate,and my pencil cought in the bike chain aka the grinder.

But hey,that's just my point of view.good luck with your bike.

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:17 am
by Nalian
jackc34 wrote:
balb1427 wrote:just thought I'd let you know that this article has influenced me not to go for the 600 series right away. I am 16 and hopefully going to get some kind of bike before I graduate from High School. I don't like any of the Ninja Series so I think once i get a solid financial base, I'll get the 500cc Suzuki that was mentioned in the article. Thanks for the advice

-Brian
Well,500cc Isn't that much smaller than a 600cc,when you consider that most 600cc bikes are infact around the 596 to 599cc and are just considered a 600cc,
That statement is VERY wrong. There is an enormous difference between a 500cc motorcycle and a 600cc supersport. Like about 100 horsepower difference.

When you're dealing with motorcycles you cannot go by the engine size - it is very misleading. You must go by the amount of horsepower and torque the bike puts out.

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:05 am
by Nibblet99
exactly, the 600's are built to 600cc for Race specifications, not because its a nice size.

Its no wonder that they are tuned closer to race spec with sharper brakes than a 500cc bike. They are not the same animal at all

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:44 am
by Peter Y
Nibblet99 wrote:exactly, the 600's are built to 600cc for Race specifications, not because its a nice size.

Its no wonder that they are tuned closer to race spec with sharper brakes than a 500cc bike. They are not the same animal at all
There are 600CC's that are more timid also. Not every 600CC is a supersports. A supersport style 500CC would be more dangerous than a timid 600CC cruiser or something like that.

I dont think we are ever going to get a common consensus on this issue. At the end of the day you get what you can handle and you apply common sense. Doesnt matter if its 500cc or 600cc.

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:48 pm
by Koss
Peter Y wrote:
Nibblet99 wrote:exactly, the 600's are built to 600cc for Race specifications, not because its a nice size.

Its no wonder that they are tuned closer to race spec with sharper brakes than a 500cc bike. They are not the same animal at all
There are 600CC's that are more timid also. Not every 600CC is a supersports. A supersport style 500CC would be more dangerous than a timid 600CC cruiser or something like that.

I dont think we are ever going to get a common consensus on this issue. At the end of the day you get what you can handle and you apply common sense. Doesnt matter if its 500cc or 600cc.
Thats why we go by horsepower and the weight of the motorcycle... and no one ever said a 600cc cruiser wasn't ok for a newbie. Its only 600CC supersport bikes we don't agree with AT ALL.

Edit: we as in the people who are arguing this point of view.

And at all as in, for inexperienced new riders...

Happy now Mr. Technical?

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:21 pm
by Fast Eddy B
Nalian wrote:
That statement is VERY wrong. There is an enormous difference between a 500cc motorcycle and a 600cc supersport. Like about 100 horsepower difference.
Which 500's are we talking about? A 600cc race-rep bike puts out between 108 to 130 bhp. So are we talking about Royal Enfields? (22bhp)

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:24 pm
by Fast Eddy B
Koss wrote: Thats why we go by horsepower and the weight of the motorcycle... and no one ever said a 600cc cruiser wasn't ok for a newbie. Its only 600CC supersport bikes we don't agree with AT ALL.

We?
At all?


Did I miss something?

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:36 pm
by jonnythan
Koss wrote: Its only 600CC supersport bikes we don't agree with AT ALL.
What's our favorite color?

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:38 pm
by Fast Eddy B
jonnythan wrote:
Koss wrote: Its only 600CC supersport bikes we don't agree with AT ALL.
What's our favorite color?

:laughing:

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:08 pm
by Koss
There... edited it for those knit pickers out there with nothing better to do.

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:11 pm
by Koss
Fast Eddy B wrote:
Nalian wrote:
That statement is VERY wrong. There is an enormous difference between a 500cc motorcycle and a 600cc supersport. Like about 100 horsepower difference.
Which 500's are we talking about? A 600cc race-rep bike puts out between 108 to 130 bhp. So are we talking about Royal Enfields? (22bhp)
Btw... she said "ABOUT"... not "EXACTLY"... cut her some slack yesh.

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:12 pm
by Nalian
A ninja 500 puts out around 42 hp. A buell blast puts out around 30hp. Obviously I'm speaking generally and not running around with a dynomometer on every bike - but at that point does it really matter? My statement still stands.

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:19 am
by Fast Eddy B
Nalian wrote:A ninja 500 puts out around 42 hp. A buell blast puts out around 30hp. Obviously I'm speaking generally and not running around with a dynomometer on every bike - but at that point does it really matter? My statement still stands.
It made me think you were talking about bikes with 8 to 30 bhp. I wondered which those were. Thanks for clarifying.

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 2:31 am
by Peter Y
Koss wrote:
Happy now Mr. Technical?
Great clarity Koss. I feel much better now :wink:

So what does the worldy, experienced, community think about HP on the bike? If you were to draw a line between go and no go for beginners what would the recommended HP be? What would the weight of the bike be? What is the maximum power/ideal configuration that a newbie can have that will still ensure they have the blessing of the higher powers in this forum?. If we were to create a manual for newbies and the first chapter was on the bike what would the bike featured in that chapter be?(Im assumming the newbie wants to ride hard and fast).

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:20 am
by Koss
Peter Y wrote:
Koss wrote:
Happy now Mr. Technical?
Great clarity Koss. I feel much better now :wink:
Oh hehe... I wasn't talking about you there :P

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:41 am
by DivideOverflow
Peter Y wrote:
Koss wrote:
Happy now Mr. Technical?
Great clarity Koss. I feel much better now :wink:

So what does the worldy, experienced, community think about HP on the bike? If you were to draw a line between go and no go for beginners what would the recommended HP be? What would the weight of the bike be? What is the maximum power/ideal configuration that a newbie can have that will still ensure they have the blessing of the higher powers in this forum?. If we were to create a manual for newbies and the first chapter was on the bike what would the bike featured in that chapter be?(Im assumming the newbie wants to ride hard and fast).
I already told you, 50hp/500lbs. That is the general rule of thumb for recommending bikes for n00b strangers on the internet.

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:58 am
by Peter Y
DivideOverflow wrote: I already told you, 50hp/500lbs. That is the general rule of thumb for recommending bikes for n00b strangers on the internet.
Dam you pick you words carefully dont you :evil: