You are a Beginner and want a 600cc+ sportbike? READ THIS!

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BIGMAN389
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GREAT ARTICLE

#181 Unread post by BIGMAN389 » Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:16 pm

JUST WANTED TO SAY THANKS FOR THE ARTICLE..I AM VIRGIN WHEN IT COMES TO RIDING MOTORCYCLES..I AM STILL IN THE STAGES OF GETTING MY PERMIT AND TAKING THE CLASSES... BUT IN THE PROCESS OF TRYING TO BUY A BEGINNER BIKE AND FROM READING THE ARTICLE I WILL BE GETTING A 500CC DUAL SPORT MACHINE BUT NOW THE ONLY THING TO FIGURE OUT IS WHAT BRAND TO GET .. I AM 6'2 AND 300+ SO IF ANYONE HAS ANY SUGGESTION I AM OPEN TO HEARING FROM THEM

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#182 Unread post by MattC13 » Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:32 pm

I am a new to riding and have actually read the whole artical. And as much as i know you guys want me to say i have changed my mind and im not gonna get the CBR 600 that im getting i cant say that. I understand the risk and am prepared to face them. I will admit the artical was very good and did make me think about it alot more but it just makes me respect the bike and its potienal danger all that much more. Dont worry i wont get one and not post about it. Good or Bad ill be back to tell the adventures/horrors :) :( ive had with my new bike. I know im just another bull headed moron that wont take good advice. :frusty:

Thank you for posting this it certainly opened my eyes a little more and it shows how much most of you care for the squids like me.

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Re: You are a Beginner and want a 600cc+ sportbike? READ TH

#183 Unread post by jamesd23 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:22 pm

i strongly agree with you point. i think as a parent i won't risk my child safety for some reasons that are really not justifiable if you look in the light of safety first will always be the priority. my son really loves to be involved with sports with bike particularly with racing. i think this things will help him to realize that he cannot have a 600cc+ sport bike yet.

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Re: You are a Beginner and want a 600cc+ sportbike? READ TH

#184 Unread post by ceemes » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:57 pm

On a related note, stopped by Burnaby Kawasaki last Friday to pick up a manual and front bulb for my Connie and ran across a youngster who was selling his Ninja 600RR. Yup, it was his first and from talking to him, his last bike. Didn't drop it or anything, just too much bike for a newbie and scared so much brown and dirty out of him, he has given up riding. Something to think about before you young bucks figure you are "man" enough to handle a 600RR right out of the gate.
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Re: You are a Beginner and want a 600cc+ sportbike? READ TH

#185 Unread post by HYPERR » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:55 pm

ceemes wrote:On a related note, stopped by Burnaby Kawasaki last Friday to pick up a manual and front bulb for my Connie and ran across a youngster who was selling his Ninja 600RR. Yup, it was his first and from talking to him, his last bike. Didn't drop it or anything, just too much bike for a newbie and scared so much brown and dirty out of him, he has given up riding. Something to think about before you young bucks figure you are "man" enough to handle a 600RR right out of the gate.
It's not the bike, it's the rider. To be totally blunt and honest (and cruel), some people just shouldn't take up motorcyling, simple as that. It's the one sport if you suck at it the consequence can be fatal. If you suck at tennis, no big deal. If you suck at baseball, no big deal other than that you are a liability to your teammates. If you suck at motorcycling, well that's a big deal.

Two of my friends both started on 600 sportbikes. One now in his late 20s started several years ago on a ZX6R and the other now in his early 20s on a CBR600RR a couple of years ago. The former is now an excellent rider and the latter has improved very quickly and is actually a very good one as well (in fact far superior to many other riders I know that have been riding for much longer time). They both ride frequently and neither have dropped their bike ever. They are both what I would consider athletic and responsible individuals.

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Re: You are a Beginner and want a 600cc+ sportbike? READ TH

#186 Unread post by ceemes » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:08 pm

HYPERR wrote:
ceemes wrote:On a related note, stopped by Burnaby Kawasaki last Friday to pick up a manual and front bulb for my Connie and ran across a youngster who was selling his Ninja 600RR. Yup, it was his first and from talking to him, his last bike. Didn't drop it or anything, just too much bike for a newbie and scared so much brown and dirty out of him, he has given up riding. Something to think about before you young bucks figure you are "man" enough to handle a 600RR right out of the gate.
It's not the bike, it's the rider. To be totally blunt and honest (and cruel), some people just shouldn't take up motorcyling, simple as that. It's the one sport if you suck at it the consequence can be fatal. If you suck at tennis, no big deal. If you suck at baseball, no big deal other than that you are a liability to your teammates. If you suck at motorcycling, well that's a big deal.

Two of my friends both started on 600 sportbikes. One now in his late 20s started several years ago on a ZX6R and the other now in his early 20s on a CBR600RR a couple of years ago. The former is now an excellent rider and the latter has improved very quickly and is actually a very good one as well (in fact far superior to many other riders I know that have been riding for much longer time). They both ride frequently and neither have dropped their bike ever. They are both what I would consider athletic and responsible individuals.

It's not the bike, it's the rider.

I beg to differ. The type of bike a newbie starts out with has a lot to do with their introduction into the sport and how long they stick with it. And while some people are capable of mastering a 600RR as their first bike, most are not. And their experience on it can lead them to give up the sport. The way I look at a 600RR is that its an axe murder that is just looking for an excuse to start hacking and slashing...and while it is not going to chop you to pieces when you are paying attention to it, the second you give it a chance, its gonna try and kill ya. The more experience you are at handling such a beast, the less chances it gonna get to kill ya. Most newbies really don't have that experience or control and end up either scaring the hell out of themselves or crashing. Either way, a sad exit from a great sport and means of travel.

If you are a new rider and on a beast that scares the hell out of you and is trying to kill you damn near everytime you ride, you are not going to learn to enjoy riding and soon will decide to pass on the sport. Now if you start of slow and learn to master the skills needed to ride on a smaller and more docile machine, the sooner you will start to enjoy riding and hopefully have a long and satisfying riding career with better and more powerful machines.
Always ask why.

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Re: You are a Beginner and want a 600cc+ sportbike? READ TH

#187 Unread post by HYPERR » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:57 pm

ceemes wrote: The type of bike a newbie starts out with has a lot to do with their introduction into the sport and how long they stick with it.
Yes it does. I know more people that have started on a 600 sportbike and stayed with the sport than any other.
ceemes wrote:And while some people are capable of mastering a 600RR as their first bike, most are not.
So you are agreeing with the latter half of what I said. It's not the bike, it's the rider.
ceemes wrote:The way I look at a 600RR is that its an axe murder that is just looking for an excuse to start hacking and slashing...and while it is not going to chop you to pieces when you are paying attention to it, the second you give it a chance, its gonna try and kill ya.
I cannot disagree more. If you have any significant time on a 600 sportbike, you would not be making an assertion like this. In fact, the naked SV650 would fit that description better than a GSXR600 ever would.
ceemes wrote:The more experience you are at handling such a beast, the less chances it gonna get to kill ya.
600 sportbike is not a beast, it's Jekyll and Hyde, and in the hands of most new riders, it remains Jekyll.
ceemes wrote:Most newbies really don't have that experience or control and end up either scaring the hell out of themselves or crashing.
If one cannot control a bike that really makes no reasonable horsepower until the latter half of its powerband, and some of the most user friendly, confidence inspiring, and forgiving attributes, then that person has no business riding a motorcyle.
ceemes wrote:Either way, a sad exit from a great sport and means of travel.
As I stated before, this sport is not for everyone. Sucking at it or not having the genetic skills to perform at a reasonable skill level is not an option. To put it bluntly, probably better off if they exit early before Darwin gets them.
ceemes wrote: If you are a new rider and on a beast that scares the hell out of you and is trying to kill you damn near everytime you ride, you are not going to learn to enjoy riding and soon will decide to pass on the sport. Now if you start of slow and learn to master the skills needed to ride on a smaller and more docile machine, the sooner you will start to enjoy riding and hopefully have a long and satisfying riding career with better and more powerful machines.
Once again, I repeat, it's not the bike, its the rider. Everyone is different. I would not recommend a 600 sportbike to everyone. I have even gone far as to flat out telling one friend not to take up motorcyling period. I for one would have been better off starting on a 600 sportbike that I would have respected (but never scared) rather than the ancient 200cc two stroke that I started on.
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Re: You are a Beginner and want a 600cc+ sportbike? READ TH

#188 Unread post by rlmitchell » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:16 am

I'm so glad I got my Honda Rebel 250. Might be slow and sound like a chain saw, but it is a fantastic bike to learn the ropes on.

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Re: You are a Beginner and want a 600cc+ sportbike? READ TH

#189 Unread post by ceemes » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:56 pm

HYPERR wrote:
ceemes wrote: The type of bike a newbie starts out with has a lot to do with their introduction into the sport and how long they stick with it.
Yes it does. I know more people that have started on a 600 sportbike and stayed with the sport than any other.
Bully for you, I on the other hand know more then a few people who started off on 600RR's and quit after a season or two. As mentioned many many times, the majority of the 600RR are basically street legal track bikes. All you really need to do to make them race ready is replace the street tyres with racing slicks, drill a few small holes for the placement of lock wires on various nuts and bolts, remove the turn signals and head lights and bingo, you are good to race on the track. That's what these machines are, full on racing machine that by the dint of adding lights and turn signals, are street legal and you want to turn them over to newbies who barely know how to balance them in a parking lot? May as well turn over an F3 car to a kid straight out of drivers ed and tell him to go have fun in the traffic.
HYPERR wrote:
ceemes wrote:And while some people are capable of mastering a 600RR as their first bike, most are not.
So you are agreeing with the latter half of what I said. It's not the bike, it's the rider.
Of course the rider matters, however their choice of bike matters equally as much. The rare individual may have the innate talent to hop aboard a 600RR and master it without breaking a sweat, most do not have that talent. Riding any motorcycle be it a little 125 standard or the biggest badest super bike requires learning a whole new set of skills, many which are contrary to what we have experienced. The concept of counter-steering is contrary to what most people would consider to be normal or natural, same applies to relying mainly on your front brakes for the majority of your stopping power equally goes against the grain. However these are the skills that all riders need to master if they are going to be successful and safe, and it is a lot easier to learn these skills on a bike which is more forgiving for newbie mistakes then a fully on race ready 600RR.
HYPERR wrote:
ceemes wrote:The way I look at a 600RR is that its an axe murder that is just looking for an excuse to start hacking and slashing...and while it is not going to chop you to pieces when you are paying attention to it, the second you give it a chance, its gonna try and kill ya.
I cannot disagree more. If you have any significant time on a 600 sportbike, you would not be making an assertion like this. In fact, the naked SV650 would fit that description better than a GSXR600 ever would.

Funny, there are those here that would say the SV650 is not a bad first bike for newbies to start on, or at least its is a bike that is in the gray area. Personally I have never ridden one so can't honestly say.

As for my riding history, I started off on an old CM400, graduated to a CB750 and then on to one of the hyper bikes of its day, a fuel injected Kawasaki GPz1100. I also spent the better part of six years riding as a courier in all weather conditions including snow. As such I could ride rings around most 600RR riders even though I was mounted on a KZ550. I could and still can ring the maximum performance out of my machines, while the best most newbie 600RR riders could do is blizt fast between the lights. Basically, I learned the skills needed to master the fine art of riding by mastering one level at a time. Today I ride a Concours 1000, which has the same engine as the Ninja although tuned for more low and mid range torque then high end power. Even with my gray hairs, I can still out ride the majority of newbie 600RR riders.
HYPERR wrote:
ceemes wrote:The more experience you are at handling such a beast, the less chances it gonna get to kill ya.
600 sportbike is not a beast, it's Jekyll and Hyde, and in the hands of most new riders, it remains Jekyll.
Funnily enough, I have to agree with you that 600RR's are a Jekyll and Hyde machine. In as much that Dr. Jekyll was a drug addicted loonie who could not resist sucking down his potion and turn into the sadistic murderous Mr. Hyde. And that is what a 600RR can be in the hands of an inexperience newbie, one bump, one pot hole, a slight twist of the wrist and that mild mannered Dr. Jekyll turns into the homicidal Mr. Hyde looking to kill its rider. And like Dr. Jekyll was seduced by Mr. Hyde to suck down the potion, the 600RR's are ready to seduce a newbie into going just bit over their skill level.
HYPERR wrote:
ceemes wrote:Most newbies really don't have that experience or control and end up either scaring the hell out of themselves or crashing.
If one cannot control a bike that really makes no reasonable horsepower until the latter half of its powerband, and some of the most user friendly, confidence inspiring, and forgiving attributes, then that person has no business riding a motorcyle.
There in lays the problem, the power bands of 600RR's are not linier, but come on with a sudden rush. And all it takes to get into that range is a simple twist of the wrist by mistake. Then there is the braking of 600RR's, their brakes are track bred, designed to bleed off speed quickly. All it takes for an inexperienced newbie to get into serious trouble with a 600RR is to grab a little too much throttle or brake.
HYPERR wrote:
ceemes wrote:Either way, a sad exit from a great sport and means of travel.
As I stated before, this sport is not for everyone. Sucking at it or not having the genetic skills to perform at a reasonable skill level is not an option. To put it bluntly, probably better off if they exit early before Darwin gets them.
True, this sport is not for everyone, never said it was. However the skills you mentioned can be learned and mastered by most people. Its just easier and safer to learn and master them on a bike like the Ninja 250 then to jump on a Ninja 600RR. As for you Darwin comment, it came across as rather elitist.
HYPERR wrote:
ceemes wrote: If you are a new rider and on a beast that scares the hell out of you and is trying to kill you damn near everytime you ride, you are not going to learn to enjoy riding and soon will decide to pass on the sport. Now if you start of slow and learn to master the skills needed to ride on a smaller and more docile machine, the sooner you will start to enjoy riding and hopefully have a long and satisfying riding career with better and more powerful machines.
Once again, I repeat, it's not the bike, its the rider. Everyone is different. I would not recommend a 600 sportbike to everyone. I have even gone far as to flat out telling one friend not to take up motorcyling period. I for one would have been better off starting on a 600 sportbike that I would have respected (but never scared) rather than the ancient 200cc two stroke that I started on.
I have also recommend to others not to get on a bike, only because I knew what their driving style was like and did not want to see them become a statistic. Speaking of statistics, had 600RR's been around when I started riding and I opted one as my first bike, odds are I would of become a statistics, coz I like to ride and drive hard and more then likely would of done so. Thankfully my first bikes was a CM400 and while I was scared at first, it was very forgiving and gave me the confidence to master the riding skills I needed to survive and enjoy the thrill and freedom of riding. 600RR's have their place and are great machine, but not in the hands of a newbie who is just starting out.
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Re: You are a Beginner and want a 600cc+ sportbike? READ TH

#190 Unread post by Brackstone » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:18 am

ceemes wrote:
I beg to differ. The type of bike a newbie starts out with has a lot to do with their introduction into the sport and how long they stick with it. And while some people are capable of mastering a 600RR as their first bike, most are not. And their experience on it can lead them to give up the sport. The way I look at a 600RR is that its an axe murder that is just looking for an excuse to start hacking and slashing...and while it is not going to chop you to pieces when you are paying attention to it, the second you give it a chance, its gonna try and kill ya. The more experience you are at handling such a beast, the less chances it gonna get to kill ya. Most newbies really don't have that experience or control and end up either scaring the hell out of themselves or crashing. Either way, a sad exit from a great sport and means of travel.

If you are a new rider and on a beast that scares the hell out of you and is trying to kill you damn near everytime you ride, you are not going to learn to enjoy riding and soon will decide to pass on the sport. Now if you start of slow and learn to master the skills needed to ride on a smaller and more docile machine, the sooner you will start to enjoy riding and hopefully have a long and satisfying riding career with better and more powerful machines.
I agree with ceemes 100%
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Re: You are a Beginner and want a 600cc+ sportbike? READ TH

#191 Unread post by Kal » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:13 pm

*sigh*

and under reasons I can't be arsed to post here anymore...

*head desk/interface*
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Re: You are a Beginner and want a 600cc+ sportbike? READ TH

#192 Unread post by Sniper308 » Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:20 pm

Just read everything on this post and it's definitely helpful. However, now I do not know what to do. I am new to riding and I want to purchase a dual purpose bike (Kawasaki KLR 650). Is this not a right bike for me. I don't want a dedicated street bike or a dedicated dirt bike. I also want a bike that will have a long range on a full tank of gas. What should I get. Is this bike too powerful for a beginner. Thanks for your input.

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#193 Unread post by jstark47 » Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:46 pm

Sniper308 wrote:I am new to riding and I want to purchase a dual purpose bike (Kawasaki KLR 650). Is this not a right bike for me. I don't want a dedicated street bike or a dedicated dirt bike. I also want a bike that will have a long range on a full tank of gas. What should I get. Is this bike too powerful for a beginner.
No, a KLR is not too powerful for a beginner, but it might be too tall. They are tall, tall bikes - 35 inch seat height. Unless you're very tall / long-legged, that's an additional complication to distract you when learning to ride.

This thread is about sport bikes with inline four cylinder, water-cooled engines that make over 100 horsepower. The KLR's single cylinder 650 cc engine does not make anywhere near that much horsepower. I think it makes about 40 hp.
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#194 Unread post by BRUMBEAR » Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:29 pm

I have not read all the posts here but I can only say I am tired seeing kids get picked up off the pavement and adults who bought these machines because they were only 600's!!!! These are Race Replica 130 hp+ machines not toys very capable of 160+mph with dragster HP to weight ratios!!!!! They are way more difficult to master then parallel or V twin machines with jerky powerbands and high rev power. Most guys I see end up getting on a highway and ripping cause it's all they can figure out. That is not riding any idiot can twist the wick and hold on and most can't figure the closure rates out and get in trouble anyway. I strongly urge those starting out to crawl before you run it is the natural proggression.
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#195 Unread post by dr_bar » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:33 am

squid is a squid is a squid... take the advice or leave it, at least I won't have to scrape the pavement...
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#196 Unread post by c0re » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:47 am

question, very possibly a stupid one. would you consider bikes like the fz6r, gsx650f, ninja 650 to be the sport 600's this article mentions? I mean I feel like this article is geared toward bikes like the r6, gsx 600r, cbr 600rr, ect.

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Re: You are a Beginner and want a 600cc+ sportbike? READ TH

#197 Unread post by Wrider » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:37 am

Hey there, we consider the Ninja 650 to be a very grey area beginner's bike. If you have some experience riding on friends' bikes or on dirt, it might be ok for you.
The GSX650F and the FZ6R are slightly detuned versions of sportbike motors, and so we definitely don't recommend them as beginner bikes.

If you have no riding experience, under 50 HP, and under 50 TQ is generally what this forum's members recommend, mostly because between all of us we have hundreds of years worth of riding experience, and we all started somewhere. Most of us have ridden everything from 50cc scooters to hypersports, and everything in between, so we base it off of experience.
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#198 Unread post by Islesfan91 » Tue May 29, 2012 12:24 pm

my first bike is a ninja 650R. I had no motorcycle experience of any kind BUT I did take a course before getting on it and that experience was very valuable. It's been a great bike for me, but I also have respected the power it does have and don't ride past my own limits, which are well below the limits of the bike. It's a good beginners bike if you have the willpower to remember you are a beginner and do not ride past your limits.

if you're at all inclined to show off, speed or push the limits on the road, you'd be better learning on a smaller bike IMO.

I was not at all willing to look at a supersport as a first bike, and I'm not sure when I'd ever need one. My 650 is suiting me perfectly fine.

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#199 Unread post by madjak30 » Tue May 29, 2012 2:18 pm

Wrider is right...a good guideline is the 50/50 rule (Hp/Torque)...not really anything to do with the CCs of a bike...
the Ninja 650 is about 67Hp, the GSX650F is about 85Hp and the FZ6R is about 78Hp...

as for the motors on these bikes...the Ninja is it's own engine (shared with the naked version ER-6n...and with cam & flywheel changes, the Versys), the GSX650F is a tuned up version of the engine that was in the Bandit 650S, not a detuned supersport...the FZ6R is a re-tuned version of the FZ6 engine (more torque & less peak Hp), which itself was a detuned R6 engine...so kinda right there...all three of these are meant to be entry bikes for the sport class, not necessarily a beginner bike...but if you are determined to have a sport bike, these are the better/safer choices.

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#200 Unread post by RosenRakuen » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:51 pm

dr_bar wrote:squid is a squid is a squid... take the advice or leave it, at least I won't have to scrape the pavement...
Hear, hear. :lol:
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