You are a Beginner and want a 600cc+ sportbike? READ THIS!

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Apollofrost
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#21 Unread post by Apollofrost » Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:09 pm

Why do I have a sudden urge to go bowling after that vid?
I'm starting a petition to cull narrowminded dull people - be afraid Peter, be very afraid....
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#22 Unread post by deejake » Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:56 pm

apollofrost wrote:Why do I have a sudden urge to go bowling after that vid?
+1
ahahahahaha :laughing:

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Unreasonable guidelines

#23 Unread post by Fast Eddy B » Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:04 pm

I just read http://www.californiabikenights.com/learn/ and looked at their list of bikes for the "first 10,000 miles" (mostly 250's and gutless cruisers), for after that (some fantastic middleweights), and "don't even think about it" (R1, CBR600?) bikes.

It seems that people are scaremongering a bit about the bikes that a beginner should ride. Mine might be an unpopular view, but I think some of these guidelines are a little harsh. And, as many people know, most people will react to a harsh rule (or an unjust law) with disrespect.

The TMW guidelines on new bikers is very good. It makes a good case for holding off on a sportsbike. In particular, a 2007 R6 is such a focussed machine, that it probably makes a tough ride for most riders, not just beginners. The riding position, quick steering and lack of low-rev tourque will make city riding unbearable, and at worst, dangerous for some. It does not fit into the middleweight category even though by capacity, weight and (hp?) is does.

But in my experience, you can ride the bike the way you want to ride it. My CBR puts out 108hp at something like 11,000 RPM. Has that ever happened? I wouldn't know! I've got my eyes on the road and the cars! But I can assure you it's never seen the top side of 100 MPH, and its brakes get tested more than the engine does.

Should I get an R1? No way. Should we tell new bikers to spend 10,000 miles on a 250cc bike with 30-40 hp? You can, but I don't think its a reasonable recommendation. From my reading, nobody here is an absolutist, and says "one size fits all", but I would recommend people to try some bikes, perhaps by renting if you can, and go with the one ya's likes.

Ya!
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Re: Unreasonable guidelines

#24 Unread post by WVUChrome » Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:42 pm

Fast Eddy B wrote:Should we tell new bikers to spend 10,000 miles on a 250cc bike with 30-40 hp? You can, but I don't think its a reasonable recommendation. From my reading, nobody here is an absolutist, and says "one size fits all", but I would recommend people to try some bikes, perhaps by renting if you can, and go with the one ya's likes.
For the average Joe who has never ridden a motorcycle before, yes. We should tell them that. However, for people who have dirt experience or other riding experience, you are correct, it is a little harsh.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Fa3pt6ngjJ0& ... ed&search=

This video is exactly why people with no riding experience at all should stick with a small bike. Yes, doing that same thing is possible on a 250cc, but the likelyhood is much less and the damage done to both rider and bike will also likely be much less.

Later,
WVUChrome...

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#25 Unread post by flynrider » Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:54 pm

I wouldn't tell anyone that they need to spend 10,000 miles on a small bike. I would tell them to start on a lower powered bike, to reduce the potential damage and injury of common noob mistakes. More power and twichier brakes make that potential go up.

How and when they move up to a more powerful bike is a personal decision. At least they will have gotten most of the basic noob goofs out of the their systems by then. Once basic brake, throttle and steering control become things that you no longer have to think about, it doesn't really matter what you move up to.
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#26 Unread post by intotherain » Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:47 pm

How do you know when you are advanced enough for a bigger bike??

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#27 Unread post by mercurydreams » Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:54 pm

As a noobie looking to get into riding, especially with sportbikes, i would like to say thank you for posting this article.
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First Bike

#28 Unread post by Nefersiti » Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:58 pm

Great article, glad to see it posted. At least it made me feel like I'm doing the right thing..as far as choosing the first bike. "It is my fisrt bike, not my last...' Anyway, I'm a beginner myself, last time I rode a bike I was maybe 16...that was more than ten years ago. I just started riding again last summer...after my husband found a bike he thought is perfect for me.
I am about 5'1 (maybe5' even.. :wink: ), and I weigh less than a hundred pounds. Finding the right bike is tricky for me..years ago when I first started riding, I was looking at getting a Yamaha TZR 250..since it belonged to friend and I was used to it. My feet kinda tiptoed on them though.and I never bought it.
Now I have a Kawasaki Eliminator BN125...yes it is a teeny weeny bike..
but i'm a teeny weeny person. I love my bike,it rides so nicely and I only ride it around town. There are times I wished I had at least a 250 cc, but
I'm getting my riding skills down riding my Eliminator since its such a great bike to learn on. Most importantly, I am very comfortable with this bike and it fits me...size wise..Eventually,I may get a 250cc or something..that's probably the biggest I would go considering my height and weight. I know I don't ride the biggest and baddest bike, but I find comfort in knowing that its a reat beginner's bike that I can handle. :P

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Re: First Bike

#29 Unread post by Wrider » Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:44 am

Nefersiti wrote:Great article, glad to see it posted. At least it made me feel like I'm doing the right thing..as far as choosing the first bike. "It is my fisrt bike, not my last...' Anyway, I'm a beginner myself, last time I rode a bike I was maybe 16...that was more than ten years ago. I just started riding again last summer...after my husband found a bike he thought is perfect for me.
I am about 5'1 (maybe5' even.. :wink: ), and I weigh less than a hundred pounds. Finding the right bike is tricky for me..years ago when I first started riding, I was looking at getting a Yamaha TZR 250..since it belonged to friend and I was used to it. My feet kinda tiptoed on them though.and I never bought it.
Now I have a Kawasaki Eliminator BN125...yes it is a teeny weeny bike..
but i'm a teeny weeny person. I love my bike,it rides so nicely and I only ride it around town. There are times I wished I had at least a 250 cc, but
I'm getting my riding skills down riding my Eliminator since its such a great bike to learn on. Most importantly, I am very comfortable with this bike and it fits me...size wise..Eventually,I may get a 250cc or something..that's probably the biggest I would go considering my height and weight. I know I don't ride the biggest and baddest bike, but I find comfort in knowing that its a reat beginner's bike that I can handle. :P
Oh come on! With your height and weight, your first bike should be at least a 1K sporty! lol Nah, just kidding with ya, glad to hear you found one that fits you, even at 6'2" when I climb over some of them, I'm just tip-toeing... I can't imagine trying to find a larger one that'd fit your frame. Have a good one and let us know how it works out!
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#30 Unread post by Nefersiti » Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:34 am

Wrider,
I actually had a lot of fun riding it around town last summer and rode it to work sometimes. I teach in a school, and last summer school I had the kids excited when I rode my bike to work. They thought it was the coolest thing, my little 3-6 yrs old were talking to their parents abt motorcycles all the time! Some of the elementary kids asked if they could watch me ride out of the parking lot when I leave..I got 4-5 yr old girls saying they wanna ride a motorcycle now, not a pony or a horse.. :twisted:
Well, I can't wait to ride again this coming season..winter had me lovesick
for my motorcycle :cry:
I enjoy my "quiet" time with my bike,(u know my bike is so quiet my neighbor had no idea I was riding in circles in his backyard.)..
No kids fighting in the back seat and no husband telling me to slow down the minivan!! :laughing:

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My First Bike Suzuki GSX 600F (Katana) - Europe Rider

#31 Unread post by Peter Y » Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:29 am

Ive read all the articles about why I shouldnt buy a 600CC bike as my first bike. When I look at the process involved to get a license in the North America region Vs Europe I totally understand and agree with this logic. I would just like to briefly explain what getting a license in the Netherlands involves and maybe you will agree that I can have a 600CC as a first bike.

Three Exams, six months and $1500 + a bit more

1. Basic proficiency test (U turns, emergency stops, slalome,braking etc etc)done in an area closed to traffic. Only in the presence of instructor

2. Theorey exam (Fifty questions)

3. Final Practical exam (Involves a 40 minute ride with examiner following in car).

We can only get on the road after we have passed the first test and only in the presence of an instructor. No riding with friends, relatives etc etc until you have your license.

So after going through this rigorous process I think I should be able to handle a 600CC

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

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Re: My First Bike Suzuki GSX 600F (Katana) - Europe Rider

#32 Unread post by Shorts » Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:57 pm

Peter Y wrote: So after going through this rigorous process I think I should be able to handle a 600CC

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

No. The US has basically the same requirements. There's a difference in riding and riding well.

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Re: My First Bike Suzuki GSX 600F (Katana) - Europe Rider

#33 Unread post by Peter Y » Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:50 am

No. The US has basically the same requirements. There's a difference in riding and riding well.[/quote]

I was of the impression that in the US the process was not as rigourous. I dont think it takes as long as it does in Europe to get the license. Once you have a learners permit or similar are you allowed to ride on your own? Our lessons were on on a Honda CB500 so we are already comfortable riding a larger bike but at minimum we would have already had 20 hours of lessons with instructors. I think the whole 600CC issue is between the ears. As long as you can control the throttle and you have a high sense of awarness I feel it should be ok.

Regards

Peter......

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#34 Unread post by Shorts » Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:34 pm

I think the whole 600CC issue is between the ears. As long as you can control the throttle and you have a high sense of awarness I feel it should be ok.

No matter how smart one is, newbs don't have the luxury of experience on the streets and experience on the bike, period. Remember, this is your first bike, not your last. No one says don't everget a 600cc sportbike. It is said, don't get it as your first bike because they are not the best to learn on. You want to learn to drive a stick shift in a small compact car? Or do you want to try it on busy city streets in a fully loaded 18wheeler and trailer?

An anology, think of the show "Pros vs Joes". Sure, there are some decent guy who can handle themselves on the field or court, but the pros will come in an whip them pretty good with their efficiency, ability and experience.

If you want a 600cc sportbike, go right ahead. But your learning curve will be a lot longer and slower than someone who is on an easier bike. You remember how kids only start off on a tricycle, then to a small bike with training wheels, then no training wheels and then the big 10spd? It's the same idea.

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#35 Unread post by Peter Y » Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:52 pm

Today I took delivery of my Suzuki GSX 600F. To be quite honest yes it was a little overwhelming. The weight of the bike, the fantastic sound of the Engine, the instant feel of the power and instantly responsding brakes. But u know all this just tells me I need to think twice before I start to enjoy that throttle. I think the effect it has now is more one of " I really need to watch what Im doing or else". Im cautious but confident this is going to work. I am excited!!!!

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#36 Unread post by intotherain » Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:21 am

Peter Y wrote:Today I took delivery of my Suzuki GSX 600F. To be quite honest yes it was a little overwhelming. The weight of the bike, the fantastic sound of the Engine, the instant feel of the power and instantly responsding brakes. But u know all this just tells me I need to think twice before I start to enjoy that throttle. I think the effect it has now is more one of " I really need to watch what Im doing or else". Im cautious but confident this is going to work. I am excited!!!!
why ask if your not going to listen to them? they are both right... they are also being REALLY nice to encourage you to start on a safer beginner bike. But ill say this to you straight: no, of course your not ready for a 600CC after some little "rigorous" tests. I am sure it's difficult but it is no match with having two or three years of experience on the road... Since you already got your bike there's nothing anyone can do.

Have fun in tight traffic jams =D.

:laughing:

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#37 Unread post by Fast Eddy B » Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:45 am

Peter Y wrote:Today I took delivery of my Suzuki GSX 600F.
Enjoy it. Take it easy. Practice the basics a lot. I know how hard it is to train in England, so if you've got a brain, you'll be fine.
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#38 Unread post by NorthernPete » Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:39 am

Hope all works out well for you. Watch that you dont twist the wrist by accident eh...
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#39 Unread post by Dragonhawk » Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:22 pm

Shorts wrote:You want to learn to drive a stick shift in a small compact car? Or do you want to try it on busy city streets in a fully loaded 18wheeler and trailer?

You remember how kids only start off on a tricycle, then to a small bike with training wheels, then no training wheels and then the big 10spd? It's the same idea.
I love analogies and these are some good ones I may have to steal.

The way I see it, there is nothing wrong with a beginner wanting a 600cc sportbike or even a 1300cc sportbike ... IF they know nothing about motorcycles.

Once a beginner does some research, and asks questions, and becomes educated by experienced riders, and learns that such bikes can be exponentially more dangerous for a new rider, they will fall into one of two camps:

1. Riders - Riders will heed the advice and take a training class and get a smaller bike because they are eager to learn to ride, and ride very well, and improve their skills over decades of riding.

2. Posers - Posers are the folks who ride for ego and show. They get the big fast bike, even after they are told why it is a bad idea. They are convinced that they are smarter and more skillful than everyone else. They tend to be athletic and therefore believe they have superior balance and dexterity and strength so they can "handle" a fast bike. They get a bike to look cool and impress people. They don't ride for long. They either crash within 3 months and quit or they sell the bike after putting on 400 miles in a year, because they are too scared to ride it. But, hey, they'll get to still brag that, "I used to ride motorcycles, man." :roll:
[b]Are you a beginner rider?
Have a lot of questions about motorcycling?
Not sure what bike to start with?
[url=http://www.wyndfeather.com/learn/motorcycle.htm]Learn To Ride A Motorcycle - A Step-By-Step Guide[/url][/b]

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#40 Unread post by Peter Y » Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:58 am

why ask if your not going to listen to them? they are both right... they are also being REALLY nice to encourage you to start on a safer beginner bike. But ill say this to you straight: no, of course your not ready for a 600CC after some little "rigorous" tests. I am sure it's difficult but it is no match with having two or three years of experience on the road... Since you already got your bike there's nothing anyone can do
U know I wanted to ask because I do value all the comments and guidance I get from this site. The fact that the passion I had to get a 600CC outweighed the commentary does not mean I do not take into account what was said.

I had my first weekend with the bike and took it nice and slow. Cautious and alert. I think the issue now is that Im so concious about the fact that this is a fast and powerful bike that I im reluctant to use its speed and power . I dunno if thats funny , ironic or what????

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