You are a Beginner and want a 600cc+ sportbike? READ THIS!

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Peter Y
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#61 Unread post by Peter Y » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:42 am

Jerry Gowins wrote:I haven't ridden in 30 years, and am thinking of getting back into it now that the kids are all grown and gone. Just starting my research (I have a lot to learn) and probably will not buy a bike for at least a year and after taking the motorcycle safety course.

I really appreciate the articles posted here, and the arguments against newbies on 600cc sport bikes make perfect sense to me. However, I understand that cruisers are a different beast and I want a cruiser (looking at the Kawi Vulcan 900). I am wondering how, or if, the guidelines for engine size for a newbie cruiser rider are different.
Jerry go for it. I reckon with a cruiser you got absolutley no issues. Everyone here is hell bent against a 600CC as a first bike but a cruiser is timid and wont flip you over. Listen to the voice inside you :mrgreen:

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#62 Unread post by storysunfolding » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:34 am

We don't mind a 600cc cruiser. The main idea is under 50 hp. 600cc sportbikes typically have twice that.

I agree, the licensing over here is more lax than your neck of the woods. I'd rather that we had the same training but I don't see it ever happening. In the US the MSF course isn't even designed to get you ready for the road. It's designed to provide an introduction to safe and responsible riding. It's encouraged that you develop the skills you learn with more time in a parking lot and then gradually working your way onto the road. Yes 15 hours isn't going to be nearly as good at 4 months of training- no arguements here.
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#63 Unread post by Peter Y » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:41 am

I agree, the licensing over here is more lax than your neck of the woods. I'd rather that we had the same training but I don't see it ever happening. In the US the MSF course isn't even designed to get you ready for the road. It's designed to provide an introduction to safe and responsible riding. It's encouraged that you develop the skills you learn with more time in a parking lot and then gradually working your way onto the road. Yes 15 hours isn't going to be nearly as good at 4 months of training- no arguements here.
U know I rasied the same 600CC first bike question in a Europe forum. So far there have been no posts objecting to it. Im going to give it some time and share ther results in this forum. I think the difference in views/opinions will surprise some of the hard core bikers.

Thanks for your balanced comments.

Peter...

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#64 Unread post by storysunfolding » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:08 am

I'm not so sure. It's like comparing apples to oranges, no ones too surprised when they differ.
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#65 Unread post by Peter Y » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:18 am

storysunfolding wrote:I'm not so sure. It's like comparing apples to oranges
U know what I struggle with is we are talking about the same topice and the same issues yet geogrpahical placement determines your views. I think the cultural aspect here is huge. It just changes how you view the picture. Two people same picture one says black the other white. :?

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#66 Unread post by storysunfolding » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:29 am

True but the differences in cultures is well known here. It doesn't surprise me on the differences.
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#67 Unread post by atom » Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:11 am

Peter Y wrote:
1. find a big "O Ring" blender and toss the bike in and then jump in while its on "puree"

2. cut off a little bit of your skin at a time and glue it to the bike until the bike is covered and then remove your bones and replace structural components of the frame with your bones, easier on trellis-type frames

3. use your own blood instead of gasoline and swimmers/saliva instead of oil

4. if your bike is liquid cooled, connect an artery to the outlet of the radiator and a vein to the tube going back to the engine
Just an FYI for you Im actually doing great with the bike. Cautious, pro-active & steady. No need to be a smart "O Ring" (unless your just behaving naturally). Ive spoken to at least 30 different experienced riders in the Netherlands and not ONE has agreed that a 600CC is too big of a bike. Im still a strong believer that the Pre-exam lessons and the rigid requirments expected of you in the exam in Europe is way more advanced than the requirments in North America right now. You talk about a MVSF course but we have a course that is numerous times more intense and detailed and that is absolutley compulsory for every driver in the Netherlands. Not optional like it is for your folks. I just came across a 23 year old guy yesterday with a Brand New GSX-R as his first bike. It was never a discussion of too big too powerful. The average time it takes for a license in Holland is four months due to the intensive lessons/training curriculum. You cant say there is anything even similar in your part of the world.

So now that I have pissed off your folks on that side of the world Im hoping you all acticulate how wrong and inexperienced my commentary is. :( Be sure to be constructive though huh. Derogatory, destructive behaviour get you no where :laughing: :evil: :twisted:
glad you're doing well with your bike. I just naturally am a smart "O Ring". Ignore me as you see fit.
Maybe dutch is your first language. I was riffing on your use of the word assimilate, which means to absorb or incorporate mulitple things into one thing.
It sounds like if we were required to get the same kind of training in the US as y'all get in the Netherlands there would be better newbie bikers here.
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#68 Unread post by Peter Y » Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:36 am

glad you're doing well with your bike. I just naturally am a smart "O Ring". Ignore me as you see fit.
Maybe dutch is your first language. I was riffing on your use of the word assimilate, which means to absorb or incorporate mulitple things into one thing.
It sounds like if we were required to get the same kind of training in the US as y'all get in the Netherlands there would be better newbie bikers here
Hey thanks for the comments. My native tongue is English but thats what happens to your English when you travel for over 10 years and live and work in five different countries. You just allocate "high level" meanings to words as you see fit :laughing:

As mentioned in this forum previously I have a post with the same 600CC first bike question in Europe. I got 100 hits with 15 responses in the first hour. Im going to compile some of the responses later on so you folks can compare. I think its going to be great to see the differing opinions on the same topic from mutually passionate riders on other sides of the world.

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#69 Unread post by Apollofrost » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:16 am

+1 on jumbled vocabulary. A while ago I somehow combined "down payment" and "deposit" to form "Downposit"
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Re: You are a Beginner and want a 600cc+ sportbike? READ TH

#70 Unread post by Peter Y » Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:58 am

OH MY GOD HE'S NEW AND HE HAS A 600CC, HOW COULD YOU DO SUCH A THING!!! YEP IM NEW, I GOT IT AND I LOVE IT

Its a shame Im on the other side of the world otherwise you could all come round and convince me as to how wrong I am.



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#71 Unread post by Johnj » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:08 am

Psst...we're not worried for ourselves.

So let me see if I have this right. You live in Holland were your required to have some 4 mo. of intensive training before you can get a motorcycle endorsement. Based on that you are saying the 600cc sport bikes are ok for American riders, who don't have any required training, to start out on.

I think I like the English way the best. Start out on a small displacement bike, after a couple of years move up to a mid-weight, and a couple of years later unlimited.
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#72 Unread post by Peter Y » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:18 am

So let me see if I have this right. You live in Holland were your required to have some 4 mo. of intensive training before you can get a motorcycle endorsement. Based on that you are saying the 600cc sport bikes are ok for American riders, who don't have any required training, to start out on.
All im saying is its not a big deal to ride a 600CC as your first bike. Its dependant of course on the type of 600CC and the pre-riding preperation you have had. You cant just wave a flag in the air and say "Dam to all new riders who ride a 600CC as their first bike". Thats the online bashing I have received when I tried to argue any different.

But wait theres more :laughing: Im also compiling a list of responses Ive got from a Europe forum on the same issue and will share these in the near future. You will then see the contrast.

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#73 Unread post by Nalian » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:37 am

Peter - you have your opinion and others have theirs. I don't think you're going to prove anything going on a tangent. ;)

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#74 Unread post by Peter Y » Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:25 pm

Nalian wrote:Peter - you have your opinion and others have theirs. I don't think you're going to prove anything going on a tangent. ;)
U know considering the online bashing I got I think im being totally mild in my response. But wait give it a day or so Im going to come back with some interesting data for your folks to review. Same topic same circumstances and differing views. I just think you need to question the status quo and not be "conditioned" to just agree with what you read or others say. :mrgreen:

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#75 Unread post by storysunfolding » Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:06 pm

Peter

In the us you don't need any training to get a license. You can use a friends scooter and pass the skills test legally. Compare that to the training that you claim to have received. We don't have anything like that AVAILABLE on this side of the water. Also, our cars are bigger, our drivers are more aggressive and there are too many salesman that think about money over reason. The european culture is accepting of motorcycles and they are in a much greater abundance over there.

You've essentially been trained to ride that bike. Most of the kids that start out on 600+cc race replicas don't even have the weekend course that we recommend. Given the vast differences, no- no one is going to be surprised if you put European forum data up that contradicts this.

Also- your bike is a katana- not the R6, GSXR 600 and other race replicas that we warn about. It's tamer in comparison
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#76 Unread post by Damian » Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:54 pm

But two pages back, Shorts was telling Peter that the requirements to ride in the states were about the same as he described for the Netherlands. So he's getting conflicting arguments - frustrating for anyone.

Peter, nice bike. If you haven't seen it yet, check out katriders.com.
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#77 Unread post by Peter Y » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:12 pm

In the us you don't need any training to get a license. You can use a friends scooter and pass the skills test legally. Compare that to the training that you claim to have received. You've essentially been trained to ride that bike.

Also- your bike is a katana- not the R6, GSXR 600 and other race replicas that we warn about. It's tamer in comparison
Great points & they are the points I made to build my case around what Ive been screaming out here for the last month or so. Its totally different and thats why I was so frustrated to get an "online bashing" from the majority of responses ( not every single one but the vast majority). Plus as you so rightly say my bike is a very timid 600CC. Not going to flip over at the traffic lights with some extra power.

But yep now im totally confused because I was advised on a previous post that the training & pre license preperation was the same.

U can imagine all the responses I got when I raised the issue on a UK forum im also a member of. I got 400 hits in half a day.

Anyway I guess we still havent got to the bottom of this. Its still open????

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#78 Unread post by Peter Y » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:34 pm

Peter, nice bike. If you haven't seen it yet, check out katriders.com
Thanks for the heads up on the Katana site. Ive already registered.

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Re: Looking to buy a bike.

#79 Unread post by jackc34 » Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:57 pm

Scoutmedic wrote:
jackc34 wrote:Hi,I'm just buying my first motorcycle,I wanted a Sport bike,I saw 2006 Honda Intercepter on the Honda site,But after reading the post about 600cc bikes and beginers I thought I should ask you guys what would be a good bike,

My other choice even though it's not as cool looking was the Ninja 250.

Can you guys give me any seggustions? :?
Have you checked out the Beginner's Guide? There are also stickies and the Learn To Ride A Motorcycle page which is now downloadable in PDF format (Created and maintained by Dragonhawk).

Yea,Well I've decided on a 2007 Honda CBR600cc Supersport,I've heard all this stuff about the 600cc,but I'm going for it.anyways thanks for the tips.Wish me luck.

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Re: Looking to buy a bike.

#80 Unread post by Sev » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:19 am

jackc34 wrote:
Scoutmedic wrote:
jackc34 wrote:Hi,I'm just buying my first motorcycle,I wanted a Sport bike,I saw 2006 Honda Intercepter on the Honda site,But after reading the post about 600cc bikes and beginers I thought I should ask you guys what would be a good bike,

My other choice even though it's not as cool looking was the Ninja 250.

Can you guys give me any seggustions? :?
Have you checked out the Beginner's Guide? There are also stickies and the Learn To Ride A Motorcycle page which is now downloadable in PDF format (Created and maintained by Dragonhawk).

Yea,Well I've decided on a 2007 Honda CBR600cc Supersport,I've heard all this stuff about the 600cc,but I'm going for it.anyways thanks for the tips.Wish me luck.
Good Luck.
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