When to countersteer?

Message

kar_the_terrible · Fri Apr 22, 2005 8:14 am

I've been riding for six years when I back home. But I've never taken a "formal" course. I know the MSF comes highly recommended, and I intend to take it when I've scrounged the money together. But I was riding the other day, and noticed that I pretty much try and instinctively steer, and have little idea when it is right to countersteer. I do mostly city driving, so the opportunity to countersteer doesnt present itself that much anyway.

I took my bike out on some scenic backroads and opened up on the throttle. On some curves riding was nice and smooth, on others she fought back, once while I was pulling off the road to check my map for directions (that was scary). So does anybody consciously countersteer, or is it just something done by the seat of your pants?

Fri Apr 22, 2005 8:37 am

At speeds over 10mph or so, for me......

Maverick33 · Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:04 am

Just curious...what kind of bike do you have?

kar_the_terrible · Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:12 am

'78 xs400 yam

Mag7C · #5 Unread post by **Mag7C** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:41 am

When driving in the city I'm not aware at what point I go from steering to countersteering.

The only time I really notice it is on the hard corners. The safety course teaches push in the direction you want to go, but I'm more of a pull on the opposite bar with the push as a guide. Seems to work either way.

What's really odd is unconscious shifting.

iwannadie · Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:45 am

i ride the same road almost every day, its a series of long sweeping curves. and i counter steer through the whole set of them. i dont think about it until im already doing it and holding the turn. usually riding with one hand pulling the right bar towards me while turning/leaning left.

everytime i realize what im doing it makes me think and wonder just how it works lol. ive seen so many diagrams and explanations, but its still just cool how it works i think.

all the other times it happens(which im sure is alot) i dont even realize cause it happens so fast.

Gadjet · #7 Unread post by **Gadjet** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:26 pm

I don't even think about it. I just do it.

poppygene · #8 Unread post by **poppygene** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:24 pm

Countersteering is one of those characteristics of a bike where it's almost alive, really, and you have to let it tell you what input it needs from you to make a particular maneuver. Yeah, I know. When you say it like that, it's kinda spooky. But I think that when it becomes natural for a rider he is as close to flying without wings as it gets. It comes with practice and really getting to know your bike.
I've known some people who said they gave up motorcycling just because they couldn't handle leaning in turns. I think what really happened was that they never grasped or became comfortable with the concept of countersteering. That's what separates riders from drivers.

BuzZz · #9 Unread post by **BuzZz** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:06 pm

I firmly believe that everyone countersteers, anytime you turn a bike at more than walking speed. It's the only way to turn a bike, physic-ly speaking. When you think about doing it, you exagerate the effect and so notice it more. That's my belief anyway, you physicists can argue the merits of it at your leisure.....

A riding school in the states (can't remember which one) took a ZX-7 or some such ninja and made up a second set of bars on the bike just above the stockers, but rigidly mounted to the frame, not connected to the fork/yokes at all. Then they send you out on it and tell you to try turning by leaning only with the rigid bars. The bike will barely change direction untill the rider uses the stock bars and starts counter steering....... more useless bar-bet information.....

#10 Unread post by **Skier** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:08 pm

BuzZz wrote:I firmly believe that everyone countersteers, anytime you turn a bike at more than walking speed. It's the only way to turn a bike, physic-ly speaking. When you think about doing it, you exagerate the effect and so notice it more. That's my belief anyway, you physicists can argue the merits of it at your leisure.....

A riding school in the states (can't remember which one) took a ZX-7 or some such ninja and made up a second set of bars on the bike just above the stockers, but rigidly mounted to the frame, not connected to the fork/yokes at all. Then they send you out on it and tell you to try turning by leaning only with the rigid bars. The bike will barely change direction untill the rider uses the stock bars and starts counter steering....... more useless bar-bet information.....

I believe this is the bike you are talking about, the No-BS bike. The BS stands for "body steer," mind you.

No BS bike page wrote:At this writing, we have run nearly 100 riders of all experience levels on this double barred bike. It has made believers out of every single one--in the actuality of countersteering of course. Even at speeds of no more than 20 to 35 mph, no matter how much you tug or push or pull or jump around on the bike, the best we saw was that the bike wiggled and became somewhat unstable. Did it turn? Not really. Would it turn at higher speed? Absolutely not. Could you avoid something in your path? No Way. Could anyone quick turn the bike? Hopeless! The best result was one of my instructors. He got into a full hang-off position and was able to persuade the bike, by jerking on it, to start on a wide, wide arc in the paddock at Laguna Seca, a piece of asphalt that is about 500 X 800 feet. Like turning an oil tanker ship, start at noon and be on the turning arc at around 1:00 PM. It wasn't smooth and it wasn't very effective.

Hough goes over the physics of counter-steering in one of his books, as well.