MSFC vs State permit and skills test?

[hordak]

Not sure which one to do to get my licence? I know that everyone talks about how great the MSF is and the insurance break is nice but I took the course review test on the web site and got 43 out of 45 answerers right with zero previous motorcycle experience( unless you count mopeds) I did all the flash simulations without any problem as well. What really confuses me about the class is the timing. Why would riding a little 250 around a parking lot for a few hours then taking the test while it is fresh in your mind make you a safer driver then learning to ride on the bike you will drive, in real life traffic for weeks or months before you take the test?
You wouldn't have your 16 year old kid drive your geo metro around the walmart parking lot for a few hours then give him his licence and the keys to a Corvette.
So why does everyone prescribe this method for beginner riders?
What are the fail rates for the class vs the state test?

[Lion_Lady]

Because taking the MSF involves having a TRAINED instructor watching you and noting what you are doing right, and what you need to change to get things right.

Sure, you might be able to figure it out on your own (folks do it all the time) but the learning curve can be very painful when you get stuff wrong.

It ain't all about the book stuff. I can do pretty well on nearly any video game (from shooting to skateboarding) with no training... Do you REALLY think being able to do 'simulations' on your computer is comparable to riding?

P

[hordak]

of course not. That's my point. You learn by riding in a practical setting. And since you don't encounter,traffic,hills,lights,pedestrians,bad roads ,speeds over 35 mph etc. How practical is the class?
If you all ready know the book stuff,slow look lean roll, S.E.E , proper emergency braking procedure etc. is it worth it to pay $250 to have someone watch you?
I would love to here from people who got there licence the states way.

[Lion_Lady]

Okay. That's how I got my license.

The riding portion of the course is done without traffic/pedestrians, etc because there is already so much to think about in learning to ride.

Have you been on a motorcycle yet? Trust me, there is a LOT to think about while riding and NOT having to worry about traffic is a huge plus. Even folks who HAVE riding experience learn stuff in that basic class, they didn't realize they didn't know (or were doing wrong).

They tell me after they've passed the course, or while waiting in line for their turn at the next exercise... I'm an MSF instructor.

P

[hordak]

I meant the states way as in permit to licence without the class. Did you do that then the course latter?

Yes and no. Not really a motorcycle cc wise but I have spent time on 70 cc Yamaha geared moped. And yes not having traffic makes it easier to ride. But it doesn't seem like enough practical experience to receive a licence.
I'm not trying to bash the class or anything. It might be great. I might do it ..
It does however remind me of when I was in the free public drivers Ed in high school. We had a few people who kept failing the tests and couldn't drive at all. They dropped out of our class and paid $300 for private classes some place else. Suddenly they had passed drivers Ed, had permits and still couldn't drive at all. I just don't want to buy my licence $250 when I can earn it for $27ish. If that is the way it goes.Not saying that is how it is. I don't know anyone who didn't take the course.

[Brackstone]

of course not. That's my point. You learn by riding in a practical setting. And since you don't encounter,traffic,hills,lights,pedestrians,bad roads ,speeds over 35 mph etc. How practical is the class?
If you all ready know the book stuff,slow look lean roll, S.E.E , proper emergency braking procedure etc. is it worth it to pay $250 to have someone watch you?
I would love to here from people who got there licence the states way.

That's like saying when training police officers to use guns we should have the cardboard pop-up targets they shoot at in real cities because otherwise the practice isn't viable.

Not only is there a lot to focus on when learning how to ride a motorcycle, you could kill yourself or worse someone else.

[jonnythan]

I'll make it real simple:

It's because you're learning to operate the motorcycle. The primary purpose of the range portion of the class is to familiarize you with the physical operation of the vehicle.

This way, when you *do* get into the more dangerous situation of actually riding in traffic on public roads, you already know how to mechanically operate the vehicle.




That being said, in all training, whether it's scuba training, high angle rescue training, firearms training, or self defense training, it is common practice to learn the activity in a sterile, controlled environment. Learning this way, with few to no distractions, allows you to practice and familiarize yourself with the activity in question so that when you are presented with the situation in "real life," you can focus on the particulars of the situation without having to think about what you've been trained on.

[onin24eagle]

Keep in mind the class is set up to assume you know "nothing" about motorcycles and riding. So, if this is you, go buy a bike, take it to the DMV, and try to pass the driving test. Then, humbly call and sign up for the MSF class. I rode dirt and street bikes for over 15 years 25 years ago, bought a street bike, took the DMV driving test and failed badly. This weekend I took the MSF and passed. If you are a new rider you should especially take the class.

[jonnythan]

You wouldn't have your 16 year old kid drive your geo metro around the walmart parking lot for a few hours then give him his licence and the keys to a Corvette.

You know, ignoring the fact that a car is far easier and more foolproof to operate than a motorcycle, parking lots *are* standard operating procedure for teaching teenagers to drive.

I first got behind the wheel in a parking lot. So did my two brothers, my girlfriend, her brothers, my cousin, etc. Drive around a big empty parking lot for a half hour (or more, if needed, especially if driving a manual tranny) to get familiar with the mechanical operation of the vehicle. It's quite a bit better to learn just how the steering wheel, throttle, and brakes respond in a safe parking lot environment instead of in traffic.

And, no, you wouldn't let them drive in a parking lot then give them a Corvette... just like you wouldn't want to take the MSF and then buy an R6 the next day. You teach them in a parking lot, then coach them on the streets, then they can get their own used car... just like on a bike. Teach them in a parking lot *first* so they don't have to spend time thinking about how to physically operate the vehicle on city streets.

[hordak]

I rode dirt and street bikes for over 15 years 25 years ago, bought a street bike, took the DMV driving test and failed badly. This weekend I took the MSF and passed. If you are a new rider you should especially take the class.

Thank you. This is the kind of advice I was looking for. People who did the state permit and driving test without the class.