My Take on the First Bike question...

[Ducky]

So, Ive been riding for about 6 weeks now--loving every moment of it. But my story began well over a year ago when i decided that I'd learn to ride. I began to save my money for a bike, gear--anything that might pop up. Once I'd saved up about half of what I expected to pay for a bike, I went to sign up for the MSF course at the local community college. They were booked for the entire fall semester and I was forced to take the course in late January. I actually went on the internet in search of graphic images of motorcycle fatalities and pics of disfigured victims of motorcycle collisions. No, I'm no freak...I was simply trying to see if my passion for motoring exceeded the FEAR that seemed to be building in me as the date of the coarse drew near. Nothing worked--I was not discouraged--I was going to get my license and a motorcycle, period. Anyway, I checked around on sites like this trying to figure out what to buy. I had pretty much decided on picking something up on EBAY seeing as how the prices seemed much better than retail (who needs a warrantee anyway). Most sites pointed to a 250cc bike, much like the ones they use in the motorcycle course. I decided to wait until after the course to see how well I handled the little bike. The course was 2 weekends longs (a thursday and saturday followed by the same next week) and on the last day taking the test, I realized that while I felt somewhat comfortable with the bike in the course, I had NO street experience ...I felt...unprepared... It wasnt so much a matter of what kind of bike anymore, it was...."do i trust myself with the public..am I a danger to myself and others?" I consulted my instructor who in my opinion was extremely skilled and who had earned my respect. He said something different.
"You'll do fine. As far as what bike to get, get what you like. Dont pick a 250cc because you think you can manage it any better than a 600+. If you fixate on the 18 wheeler next to you, you'll get wrapped up in the tires and die..if you split lanes and ping pong between 2 cars, you'll probably die...if you dont look through your turns...well you get what im saying. All these things can happen on a 250 or a 1300."

It really got me thinking. I went away from that class with a license (or paperwork to secure one) and a fairly good understanding of throttle control. According to my instructor..thats all i really needed. Time to buy a bike...

(2 weeks later)
So, this fat guy delivers my 2000 Ducati 748. Its a beautiful yellow with chrome D&D slip ons, a chip in it, some thing or other to keep it extra cool in the summer months, an exposed clutch with an adonized redish clutch plate. I call her Sherene.

Anyway, I waited till the guy left to even sit on her...I had no idea what I was doing. I was scared out of my bloody socks. It was soo clean and shiny and HEAVY. OMG i thought..what have I done...all this money and this thing is going to end up in a tree.... I couldnt even fire it up..was it broken?
(20 MIN LATER)
The internet says I have to lift the kickstand or it wont start....(started it up) WOW , its loud...and sounds broken (like all ducatis do). But WOW..it sounds sick...clutch..first gear..balance off....little gas...omg im moving!
(TODAY)
Took Sherene up to the Blue Ridge Parkway for the first time (bout 45 mins from where i live). Its a beautiful piece of road that runs between North Carolina and Virginia. The scenery is breathtaking! The speed limit is 35 and the road is just under 500 miles long. In my book, it cant be appreciated fully at anything under 65 mph. I stopped many times to take pics with my phone and take in the scenery. If you havent been there you should go right now! (or sometime soon). The bike communicates every input from your throttle hand to you in such a way that it WARNS you when its not being handled properly. I've only figured this out of late as my skill is slowly improving and I can push the bike a little harder. Mind you, the bike can do quite a bit more than I am capable of right now, so it's all about listening to her...feeling when my braking isnt smooth, when she needs to lean over more..when she's on the edge of adhesion, etc...

The point of this long post is this... My instructor was soo right...its about YOU, the rider..not the bloody bike. You can have fun on a 250 or die on it. And the same applies to any bike you choose. Take the MSF course....be honest with your skill level. THROTTLE CONTROL will save your life. For the most part a bike will fight to stay upright...its up to YOU to keep within the limits of your skills, as a beginner you'll never test the limit of the bike unless your inputs are all fouled up. Start slow, and ride alot...and BUY WHATEVER YOU LIKE!

Ducky

[mgdavis]

You came to the wrong place to recommend 750cc sportbike for beginners. I wish you nothing but good luck, but make sure you follow up here if you crash. That way we can use you as a perfect example of why a new rider shouldn't go with 90hp "race bike".

My reference source

[Ducky]

I realize my thoughts are unpopular. I have been so happy with my choice though that I thought i'd share my experience so far. Indeed, so long as I'm able, I'll follow up with updates on my progress (or demise).

Although..you brought up the fact that im riding a 90 hp race bike..as if to say that there is an inherent difficulty buried within the frame of a bike directly linked to its potential power. That is a GROSS generalization that seems too easily accepted IMO. I dare say, my bike is easier to control than the 250cc I started on. It's designed to stay shiny side up. I suppose the bicycle tires and shoddy brakes of the nighthawk 250 would have served me better in the turns earlier today? Everyone sites HP or some race oriented specification and fixates on it and called it a deathtrap. Incompetence kills, not horsepower. I've had a high speed braking situation to avoid an accident already (im still living), as well as a pickup truck mysteriously swerving into my lane from oncoming traffic (still here). Say what you like..but without the grabby brakes of this duc and the ability to brake mid corner and adjust my line..I would have sustained massive injury. I've NEVER utilized the 97 hp this bike has! I shift modestly and obey most speed limits (much the way I do in my car). I'm a newbie..but I'm fairly competent and have never felt overwhelmed by the bike...In fact..the bike grows lighter and smaller every day as my skill increases.

Ducky

[Johnj]

The speed limit is 35 ... In my book, it cant be appreciated fully at anything under 65 mph.

That is thirty miles per hour over the limit.

[Dragonhawk]

So, Ive been riding for about 6 weeks now--loving every moment of it.

(2 weeks later)
So, this fat guy delivers my 2000 Ducati 748.

Anyway, I waited till the guy left to even sit on her...I had no idea what I was doing. I was scared out of my bloody socks. It was soo clean and shiny and HEAVY. OMG i thought..what have I done...all this money and this thing is going to end up in a tree.... I couldnt even fire it up..was it broken?

Took Sherene up to the Blue Ridge Parkway for the first time (bout 45 mins from where i live). Its a beautiful piece of road that runs between North Carolina and Virginia. The scenery is breathtaking! The speed limit is 35 and the road is just under 500 miles long. In my book, it cant be appreciated fully at anything under 65 mph.

Start slow, and ride alot...and BUY WHATEVER YOU LIKE!

Ducky

Although..you brought up the fact that im riding a 90 hp race bike..as if to say that there is an inherent difficulty buried within the frame of a bike directly linked to its potential power. That is a GROSS generalization that seems too easily accepted IMO. I dare say, my bike is easier to control than the 250cc I started on. It's designed to stay shiny side up. I suppose the bicycle tires and shoddy brakes of the nighthawk 250 would have served me better in the turns earlier today? Everyone sites HP or some race oriented specification and fixates on it and called it a deathtrap. Incompetence kills, not horsepower.

To any beginners out there, do NOT take this guys advice.

Keep in mind he has been riding for LESS THAN 2 MONTHS - yet he contradicts the advice of people who have been riding for years for tens of thousands of miles. We have more experience. We know better.

He is telling you it is okay to break the speedlimit by 30MPH on mountain roads using a 750cc bike when you've been riding for 6 weeks. That is idiotic, unless you have a deathwish. Cripe, the guy is so clueless, he didn't even know how to start his bike when he bought it!

If someone says you can "handle" a 100+HP sportbike when you are just learning, their advice is the equivalent of a person saying that you can learn to fly planes in a military fighter jet. In other words, what they are saying is true, but it is not the most ideal way to learn. Smart pilots learn in a Cessna and work their way up.

You can be hurt or killed on ANY motorcycle. No matter how small or large. The point isn't whether or not you WILL get hurt. The point is reducing the LIKELIHOOD of injury. Could you start on a big, fast sportbike and never fall or be injured? Yes. But as a beginner, the likelihood of being hurt on a 160HP bike is FAR greater than the likelihood of being hurt on a 40HP bike.

So, once again, to all you beginners - this Ducky fellow is giving dangerous advice. He has no relevant experience. He has no relevant mileage under his belt. Reduce the likelihood of injury: Don't buy a motorcycle based on your ego. Buy a motorcycle based on your skill-level.

[storysunfolding]

... very rarely will a MSF instructor suggest that throttle control is all you need. I'd call anyone who did say that mentally deficient.

Also- your bike was not designed to stay shiny side up. If it were designed that way, it would have at least another wheel. It was created in the hopes that it would stay shiny side up.

Where are you located? I hit the blue ridge and skyline from time to time. Many turns are stupid to take at 65 given their short radius and the sight line being obscured by rocks

[Ducky]

Where are you located? I hit the blue ridge and skyline from time to time. Many turns are stupid to take at 65 given their short radius and the sight line being obscured by rocks

I took interstate 52 north for NC up to Virginia and went southwest on the Parkway.

That is thirty miles per hour over the limit.

Honestly, I'm not recommending someone go 30 miles over the limit. Thats not the smartest thing to do for ANYONE. I was enjoying the road so much and the bike seemed to handle the slow winding turns so well, that I looked down at my speedo and saw that i was going way faster than posted.

Keep in mind he has been riding for LESS THAN 2 MONTHS - yet he contradicts the advice of people who have been riding for years for tens of thousands of miles. We have more experience. We know better.

I agree, that more experienced riders are typically going to give better advice. I have no issue with that. I dont think im contradicting anyone...perhaps disagreeing with the generalization that its a bad idea for anyone. If I had bought a 250cc I'd have sold it by now..and been very upset at my decision. Most of the people I know that have gone down on a bike have done so because someone else pulled out in front of them and a couple guys fell down due to gravel on the road. What you're riding plays no role in this IMO. Its the idiots on youtube that stunt, or do stupid things on sportbikes that wind up on a skin graph slide show or have their bloody pieces of flesh wrapped around uncoming traffic or some pole at 200 mph.

Please dont misunderstand me. I'm not recommending my bike choice to everyone. However, I just dont think it should be ruled out for
EVERYONE. A good friend of mine picked up a gsx-r last season for his first bike and he has been as "lucky" as myself so far. Sure, he may go down eventually--I may go down as well...but I dont think the severity of that accident will be amplified by my duc.

Ducky

[Dragonhawk]

I agree, that more experienced riders are typically going to give better advice. I have no issue with that. I dont think im contradicting anyone...perhaps disagreeing with the generalization that its a bad idea for anyone. If I had bought a 250cc I'd have sold it by now..and been very upset at my decision. Most of the people I know that have gone down on a bike have done so because someone else pulled out in front of them and a couple guys fell down due to gravel on the road. What you're riding plays no role in this IMO.

There is nothing wrong with buying a 250 and selling it. That's the whole POINT. You start small and work your way up. Tricycle first. Then a bicycle with training wheels. Then a real bicycle.

You are right, gravel can make anyone wipe out, regardless of experience or model of motorcycle. But a noob in a panic on a 250cc bike is more likely to remain upright than if he/she makes the same mistake on a Hayabusa.

Please dont misunderstand me. I'm not recommending my bike choice to everyone. However, I just dont think it should be ruled out for
EVERYONE.

Overpowered bikes SHOULD be ruled out for every new rider. In Europe, they already are. And they ride a lot more motorcycles there, so they must know something we Americans don't. If someone is ready to trade-in a 250 after 100 miles or 10,000 miles, that is up to them. But the wise and prudent should always ease into it.

[RhadamYgg]

I'm a noob to Motorcycling - I haven't taken the MSF course yet - Last weekend of April.

But I've done a lot of research and I can tell you things about your decision (statistically). Of course statistics is the art of generalization - and generalization means you will always be wrong some of the time.

1) The smaller the motorcycle - the lower the chance it will be involved in an accident.
2) The smaller the motorcycle - if it is involved in an accident the chances are the rider will have less injuries. I suspect this has to do with the physics of the motorcycle being lighter and at the same rate of speed will carry less force at impact.
3) A huge percentage of motorcycle accidents are due to excessive speed.

So, I have even less experience than you do at motorcycling - so I might not have a foot to stand on. I recently ran in to all my statistics in choosing what motorcycle I wanted to buy Rebel vs Ninja 250R - and what it really came down to was that when I sat on the Ninja it 'felt' much more substantial than the Rebel. The fact that a lot of ways the Ninja outmatches the Rebel - was really secondary.

But, I have a stake in living and ensuring that my chances are the highest possible in not being involved in an accident on a motorcycle.

30 mph over the speed limit would be considered excessive speeding. Also, if you hit some gravel or sand in the curve at that kind of speed the results would be devastating. True, even at slower speeds the sand in a curve will probably wipe you out, but what we are really talking about is your speed + mass at time of impact on a tree - and the survivability of that force at time of impact.

BTW, Ohio (which is probably hell and gone from you) ran out of salt this year and used sand. They had an article warning motocyclists of this added 'present' and that the roads would be more dangerous for motorcyclists.

This is great that they announced it, but I wonder how many other states this happened to that they didn't say anything. It only goes to point out that things beyond you control can affect the survivability of your ride.

So, be careful out there, ok? I've done the same thing as you and patrolled the videos on youtube and every day I search google news on motorcycle accidents. I'm going to get a motorcycle because the hurt report (from 1981) stated that 92% of all motorcycle accidents were by untrained riders...

But, I suspect that if you don't follow the concepts in the MSF course that you'll negate your improved chances of not being in an accident. I'm sure they didn't recommend driving 30 mph over the speed limit.

RhadamYgg

[jonnythan]

New rider, 748cc sportbike, almost double the speed limit.

Good job. I hope the cops catch you and impound your bike before you kill yourself or someone else.