Looking where you want to go

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IcyHound
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#21 Unread post by IcyHound » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:20 am

I practiced looking where I wanted to go while driving the car until I became comfortable with it. Letting my eyes slide along the road and if I fixated on a point ripping my gaze away to continue on the road a good bit in front of me.

I used empty roads that I knew very well to do it, but I think it helped me get the concept down before I was trying to figure out how to also ride the bike.
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#22 Unread post by Lion_Lady » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:43 pm

RockBottom wrote:Geez--this forum makes me believe I'm the only person who has ever flunked the BRC. I'm depressed. And it's raining, so no miles for me today!
I flunked the BRC the first time I took it. Yes, really.

P
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#23 Unread post by ofblong » Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:44 pm

my wife had 2 people that dropped the bikes during her course. You would be surprised that I even passed it if you saw me the first day of the course. I couldnt get started cause i would stall the bike almost everytime cause I didnt have the friction point right.
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#24 Unread post by StillTry'n » Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:06 pm

RockBottom

I'll suggest something else that may or may not help you psycholology (if not physically) to get into the world of riding motorcycles.

Try to watch all the video clips you can click on such as (YouTube....OnTheThrottle....wherever/whatever) and experience riders doing all kinds of wild things.

I watch hundreds of YouTube videos (and many others) of stunt sport bike riders doing the most incredible stuff you could imagine.

What they are doing is not the least bit intelligent or to be admired on a bike.... but what you can learn from these videos (if you watch very closely) is what they are doing with their bodies and their hands so as to keep the motorcycle in their control (most of the time).

You can learn a world of knowledge about control from complete idiots. Do not dismiss these insane riders. What they have to offer that we also need to have when riding a bike (to a lesser degree), is confidence.

You can increase your love of motorcycles even while you are not riding one.

Look at riders doing things you will never want do and still learn a world of information.

Experience motorcycles, and the people who ride them, in all of their forms.

I also love the look of a motorcycle while it is standing still with its kickstand down.

I remember the look of Indians (not American Indians) from the 1950s.

But that is another whole story.

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Re: Looking where you want to go

#25 Unread post by shane-o » Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:12 am

goodies wrote:I just finished the MSF. The biggest thing I had trouble with and I am not really sure what the problem is or how to fix it. Looking where you want to go. I was hollered at all weekend about that and lost points for looking down in the curve. But....I feel that I am and I was making a real effort at it, and thinking during every run, don't look down...don't look down...look where I want to go. I was trying so hard, but still almost never was looking where I need to be. It was such a huge frustration for me.

My concern is that what does this mean to me on the road? How do I correct this? I don't know if it is not clicking with me where I "need" to look or exactly what. I really didn't feel I was staring down, I probably did glance down, how else would I know where the cones where. I know that is probably why I never did get the box. But I was turning my head and trying to look.

I have experienced and know about target fixation. I guess I am concerned, because that "not looking where I want to go" during the class was such an issue....maybe I shouldn't be on a bike.

I am a handsome sexzy man...that being said;


You dont have to look where ya wanna go to go there :)

example;

Making a left hand turn while looking right to keep an eye on the traffic to make sure no is going to come through and take you out whilst turning.



In order to take your eyes off ya controls and away from the front of the bike you have to be comfortable with ya skills 1st.

Nearly all people struggle with this in the first couple of years. It doesnt feel natural BUT when ya drive and ya go to make a tight turn or even just a turn take notice of what you do...I bet you look through the turn to where ya wanna go, ya just dont realise thats what you have been doing all this time :) the diff for a bike is the balance and vulnerability aspect.


The way i taught my self to get used to moving my head from the line and direction of the bike was to actively make my self do it every time i turned, then it became habit, then reflex, then just normal.
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Re: Looking where you want to go

#26 Unread post by Lion_Lady » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:11 pm

shane-o wrote: . . . You dont have to look where ya wanna go to go there :)

example;

Making a left hand turn while looking right to keep an eye on the traffic to make sure no is going to come through and take you out whilst turning.

In order to take your eyes off ya controls and away from the front of the bike you have to be comfortable with ya skills 1st.

Nearly all people struggle with this in the first couple of years. It doesnt feel natural BUT when ya drive and ya go to make a tight turn or even just a turn take notice of what you do...I bet you look through the turn to where ya wanna go, ya just dont realise thats what you have been doing all this time :) the diff for a bike is the balance and vulnerability aspect.

The way i taught my self to get used to moving my head from the line and direction of the bike was to actively make my self do it every time i turned, then it became habit, then reflex, then just normal.
Goodies is a BRAND NEW rider. It is essential to get used to looking where you want THE BIKE to go. And, it is a good idea to take a 'peek' or two to make sure traffic is still clear.

Since it seems from your post you have been riding for several years and are self taught, I'd be willing to guess that you are actually looking where you want to go when you turn. You just do it without realizing it so it seems like you aren't.

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#27 Unread post by dweiss » Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:14 pm

I have to agree with Shorts...and I might add...great analogy about a baby! I have another...

I have been a horseman (woman) since I was 11 (I am now 45), and have always been taught (and now teach others) to look where I want to go as I ride, because the hands, legs, hips, shoulders (all riding aids on horseback) naturally follow where the eyes go. I teach young horse riders to look "between the horses ears" as they go straight, and not down. This way, the rest of the body's 'aids', which are communicating with the horse, instruct the horse correctly.

With that analogy, and after 2500 miles under my belt (highway, surface streets, and a couple of miles of gravel), I have found that the same rules hold true with riding a motorcycle, to include counter-balancing and 'steering' for the advanced motorcycle rider. A barrel rider on a horses whipping around barrels is looking ahead to where they want to go and not at the barrel or in the turn, and the rider is also leaning away from the barrel to allow the horse to lean in to the barrel for a more effective high-speed turn. So it is on a motorcycle on a faster-than-normal turn.

Anyway, that's my two-cents worth.
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#28 Unread post by CYNWAGON » Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:24 pm

As a new rider myself - 2500 kms on the bike, 1 1/2 months of riding - the look where you want to go is becoming less of a thought process and more natural. I still do a little talk to myself when I come up to a curve or turn.
While I'm turning I'm usually saying "look look lookie" under my breath, may sound silly but it works for me. Honestly sometimes I say it out loud... :roll: . My hubby thinks it's cute. :laughing:
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#29 Unread post by Batan » Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:05 pm

CYNWAGON wrote:As a new rider myself - 2500 kms on the bike, 1 1/2 months of riding - the look where you want to go is becoming less of a thought process and more natural. I still do a little talk to myself when I come up to a curve or turn.
While I'm turning I'm usually saying "look look lookie" under my breath, may sound silly but it works for me. Honestly sometimes I say it out loud... :roll: . My hubby thinks it's cute. :laughing:
It's not silly, verbal communication works very well. The school I attended actually thought us to do it although I don't. I do sing in the helmet when I'm really cold though. LOL :laughing:
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#30 Unread post by ofblong » Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:44 pm

Batan wrote:
CYNWAGON wrote:As a new rider myself - 2500 kms on the bike, 1 1/2 months of riding - the look where you want to go is becoming less of a thought process and more natural. I still do a little talk to myself when I come up to a curve or turn.
While I'm turning I'm usually saying "look look lookie" under my breath, may sound silly but it works for me. Honestly sometimes I say it out loud... :roll: . My hubby thinks it's cute. :laughing:
It's not silly, verbal communication works very well. The school I attended actually thought us to do it although I don't. I do sing in the helmet when I'm really cold though. LOL :laughing:
lol I only sing when I get bored cause im behind some slow poke that cant do more than 15 under the speed limit with no way to pass cause of oncoming traffic (I have passed on the right before though when its safe of course hell I have even done it in my mini van in the middle of winter lol).
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#31 Unread post by rmdelfino » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:53 pm

I was told the same thing about not looking where I wanted to go and was told to keep my chin up! That helped me immensely. In fact, even when I look at other riders (on the road, in magazines, in motorcycle ads, etc.) it is what I notice the most. They all have their chins up. Needless to say, I exaggerate my posture on the bike to remind me that I have to look elsewhere but down. I'm 52, but was able to learn it simply because I want to ride! BTW, I just passed the MSF BRC last July and have already put about 1,500 miles. Needless to say, like anything else, practice makes perfect.

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#32 Unread post by goodies » Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:06 am

Thanks ya'll. It does make sense, and I am working on it. I am still hanging out in the parking lots. :) But practicing and practicing. I did venture out into the neighborhood the other night and it all went well. I am working on where I am looking. I will get this, I will, I will!!!

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#33 Unread post by TexasPhotographer » Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:24 pm

Lion_Lady wrote:
RockBottom wrote:Geez--this forum makes me believe I'm the only person who has ever flunked the BRC. I'm depressed. And it's raining, so no miles for me today!
I flunked the BRC the first time I took it. Yes, really.

P[/quote

I also flunked it -28 (anything over -20 fails). I took the class the following weekend with so much more confidence and this time actually listened to our instructor. This time I passed with a -3 as I put my foot down in the box.

I would say to the original poster who does not look where he is going to ride with an experienced rider. You lead and let the other rider watch you for a 25 or so miles then stop and discuss what you felt and what he saw.

Continue to do this and then determine if you feel safe enough to be on the road.
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#34 Unread post by StillTry'n » Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:58 pm


I have been a horseman (woman) since I was 11 (I am now 45), and have always been taught (and now teach others) to look where I want to go as I ride, because the hands, legs, hips, shoulders (all riding aids on horseback) naturally follow where the eyes go. I teach young horse riders to look "between the horses ears" as they go straight, and not down. This way, the rest of the body's 'aids', which are communicating with the horse, instruct the horse correctly.

With that analogy, and after 2500 miles under my belt (highway, surface streets, and a couple of miles of gravel), I have found that the same rules hold true with riding a motorcycle, to include counter-balancing and 'steering' for the advanced motorcycle rider. A barrel rider on a horses whipping around barrels is looking ahead to where they want to go and not at the barrel or in the turn, and the rider is also leaning away from the barrel to allow the horse to lean in to the barrel for a more effective high-speed turn. So it is on a motorcycle on a faster-than-normal turn.
DW

As a former horseback rider (and newby bike rider) I can agree that the experience is somewhat comparable as to "looking where you want to go".

My only thought is that when I was riding horseback and looking where I wanted to go (and using my legs to make the horse go where I wanted to go) I was aware that the horse between my legs was a living animal....and it (the horse) also wanted to go in the correct direction, because it did not want to crash!

A motorcycle is an inanimate thing and does not really "care" if it crashes.

It takes an extreme leap of faith to let your brain believe that if you allow your motorcycle to assume a life of it's own that somehow it will become "alive' and go where you are looking.

You must come to believe that, in fact, a motorcycle is a living thing.....just like your horse.

At that point we will be one with the bike.

Dan

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#35 Unread post by ashiblue » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:56 pm

Hey there, everyone.

First of all, I want to let you guys know I'm a new(ish) motorcycle enthusiast and have no money for a bike/course/etc so have no practical experience in riding in particular. But I'm glad to learn and read as much as possible in order to (hopefully) make fewer mistakes once I CthAN afford the course and then all that comes afterward. :D

That being said:

I do have quite a bit of experience in sports and sport psychology, which in theory has nothing to do with street riding.

However, the thing that stuck out MOST to me in goodies' original post is that you were telling yourself "don't look at the road, don't look at the road."

Simply by thinking those things the only thing you are thinking about IS the road. And therefore are making it more difficult to follow everyone else's excellent advice. So REALLY DO think "look where I want to go." I know, this is harder than you...uh...think...but doable.

Think of it this way. If you're playing golf, and you think "don't hit it into the water. No water, no water no water!!!" Where is your entire body, mind, and soul concentrated? On the water! Guess where the ball is going?

I hope this helps a little. :)

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#36 Unread post by Shorts » Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:57 pm

ashiblue wrote: I do have quite a bit of experience in sports and sport psychology, which in theory has nothing to do with street riding.


Welcome :)


Uhh, I disagree ;) I think the psychological process is the same - it is the activities that make it specific.


What's your field? Kines?

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#37 Unread post by ashiblue » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:22 pm

Well, I guess I was more right than I thought, right? ;)

Anyway, no, I am actually a competitive figure skater. >_> I've been nationally competing for a little over 10 years and internationally competing for about er...9 years. So this is all practical learning for myself. But the golf analogy was taking from the book Mind Gym by Gary Mack. And can I just say that it is one of the most amazing books I've ever read? I personally think everyone should read it, "athlete" or not.

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#38 Unread post by Shorts » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:53 pm

ashiblue wrote:Well, I guess I was more right than I thought, right? ;)

Anyway, no, I am actually a competitive figure skater. >_> I've been nationally competing for a little over 10 years and internationally competing for about er...9 years. So this is all practical learning for myself. But the golf analogy was taking from the book Mind Gym by Gary Mack. And can I just say that it is one of the most amazing books I've ever read? I personally think everyone should read it, "athlete" or not.

Pretty much :D


A figure skater huh? Impressive fitness!

A good analogy on the golf. And it is right. Instead of saying "don't look at the curb" a rider should be saying "look through the turn". The body will fire on what the mind is focusing on. So, in this regard it is important to be thinking about the positive or correct side of what you need to be executing, rather than thinking of what you'd like to avoid. Then to further the process, by following through on the incorrect action and thought, the body/mind has just created and completed the pathway to failure. That means the map is in place for the next time that scenario comes around. It is even easier to mess up again. Bad habits hard to correct sound familiar? That's why practice is important, but PROPER practice is vital. Until the pathway for correct execution is completed it won't be refined. Which is, even though it is extremely difficult to learn to do something right, it is vital that the task be done that way no matter how uncomfortable so that the mind and body (CNS/PNS) can create the correct map.


Long story short, that's why you have good coaches always yelling, picture what you want to do. Imagine making the basket, winning the game - mentally rehearse the game plan so that that's the message in the mind for execution 8)

Thanks for the tip on the book, I'll take a look at it.

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#39 Unread post by Brackstone » Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:43 pm

I just wanted to throw in a comment here too about a scary turn I have.

I'm on a straight road
The road I turn on comes towards me at a 45 degree angle
The right side of the road is a hill going up that bends to the right
The left side of the road is the hill going down and it bends to the left
There is a lot of shrubbery on the right side of the hill obscuring you from seeing the traffic that is coming down the hill.
There is a huge fence on the left side of the road so you can't see what's coming up the hill without actually going mostly into the intersection.

I have the stop sign for this turn and traffic never seems to like to come to a complete stop if you know what I mean.

So I have had to learn how to look left and right but keep the bike going straight! In the beginning I would always start turning a bit and it would freak me out.

This is probably one of the most maddening exercises I had to do but I finally got used to it. It feels like you're fighting against everything to go one way and look another.
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