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seat too high or legs too short

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:55 pm
by joey-5
Hi, I am a new lady road bike rider, for many years as a teenager I rode dirt bikes, so when my other half decided the kids were old enough to cope, he started looking for a bike for me to go along on his many riding trips, he has a 1200 bandit...

we looked for months not finding a bike which I was comfortable on, not liking the sport bike..clip on handle bars, low rider pos and wanting to sit a little more upright.

finally found the fazer 600, 2005 model, loved the bike from the first ride, but have a problem with the seat height, I am 5'3 and sit with only tip toe on each side, yes not problem when riding, lovely, just in traffic....does any one know if there is a kit I can buy to lower the bike without messing with the ride and handling of the bike..


thanks .....

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:15 pm
by Lion_Lady
You may only need to shave the sides of the seat to get a better foot-touch. Make the seat narrower at the front so your knees are closer together when you put your feet down. Especially since the bike is comfortable while you're riding, I'd say DON'T lower the bike.

If you take the seat off the bike and turn it over, you'll see that the cover is held on with staples. Just pull up the staples and use a bread knife to carefully shave the sides of the seat where your legs hang over. A little at a time.

Try practicing putting only ONE foot down when you come to a stop. You'll actually be more stable that way (3 points are more stable than 4). I suggest it to new riders in the MSF course. Getting use to and planning to put one foot down, means one less thing to "decide on" when stopping, and you can hold the bike in place with your rear brake, leaving your throttle hand free to finesse getting underway.

P

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:37 pm
by MZ33
Try practicing putting only ONE foot down when you come to a stop. You'll actually be more stable that way (3 points are more stable than 4). I suggest it to new riders in the MSF course
That's an interesting tip I hadn't heard before. Is it a little tricky to avoid anticipating the stop? I've had a tendency to leaning a bit at the stop, and hence dropping the bike.

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:25 pm
by HYPERR
Lion_Lady wrote:
Try practicing putting only ONE foot down when you come to a stop. You'll actually be more stable that way (3 points are more stable than 4)
I usually put only my left foot down at stops. That being said, both legs down are more stable. I don't see how 3 points can be more stable than 4.... In a strong wind that rock the bike at stops, I usually put both feet down.

EDIT: Upon thinking, I think what Lion Lady is saying is that one flat footed leg is more stable than two on tippy toes. Yes in that case, I would agree.

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:58 pm
by Lion_Lady
MZ33 wrote:
Try practicing putting only ONE foot down when you come to a stop. You'll actually be more stable that way (3 points are more stable than 4). I suggest it to new riders in the MSF course
That's an interesting tip I hadn't heard before. Is it a little tricky to avoid anticipating the stop? I've had a tendency to leaning a bit at the stop, and hence dropping the bike.
>>Remember from Geometry: 3 points define a plane, therefore are always on a plane. . . 3 legged tables or chairs never wobble, 4 legged chairs regularly do.<<

What do you mean by "anticipating" the stop? It sounds like you aren't merely leaning, but have the bars turned? Some folks unintentionally pull the hand grip while they're squeezing the brake lever, particularly folks who for whatever reason aren't able to get a good grasp of the lever. Which way do you drop the bike? Left or right?

The key is to plan WHICH foot to put down, so you're prepared to "catch" the weight of the bike. Even though you aren't by any stretch actually supporting the full weight of the bike.

The other thing is that you've got a few seconds to check on the footing if you are coming to a traffic light or stop sign. If you know you only need a clear space for your left foot, you can scan accordingly and adjust.

From what I've read, "Two footers" don't scan as carefully for clean foot space, and as a result seem to get caught off guard. . . a hole in pavement they didn't see, oil slick, etc. etc. and tip over more often than folks who "one foot." I guess if you're only putting one foot down, you make sure you've got a clean place to put it.

P

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:38 pm
by MZ33
Which way do you drop the bike? Left or right?
Unfortunately, I am ambidexterous as a bike dropper, Lion Lady. :oops: But on further reflection, I believe it is more on the right than the left. It usually occurs when I am stopped at a three-way intersection--there are a few of these near my house, they are tight and the grade goes uphill. Once, I had stopped and it was when I began accelerating that I dropped it--hadn't even initiated the turn, but my eyes were up and into the turn, which is why I was danged surprised when it started to go over. These are always slow-motion drops. I'm fairly strong, and there is a moment when it's an even battle, and then gravity wins. :roll:

I retook the BRC this spring as a refresher, and had mentioned this problem of dropping the bike when stopped at turns. My instructor noted that I wasn't squaring up the bike on some of my stops--tended to lean into whichever way the upcoming turn would be. I could get away with it on a 250cc cruiser, but not my 650cc Vstar.

So, I've worked on not anticipating a turn after a stop, and on being really squared up. If I'm not smooth with the brake, though, I notice that the bike doesn't seem as square. I'm just wondering if I would be prone to, say, leaning a little bit to the side that I'm planning to put my foot down, and whether that would be a good thing, or a bad thing.

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:47 pm
by HYPERR
Lion_Lady wrote:3 legged tables or chairs never wobble, 4 legged chairs regularly do
I am going to disagree here. When was the last time you saw a 3 legged chair or a table? Not often. Most chairs and tables are 4 legged for a reason. For stability.

Furthermore, it is somewhat of a flawed logic to consider the 2 tires of a motorcycle as 2 points. Unlike two legs, one side is not going to be longer or shorter than the other. Both tires remain in contact with the ground together. So in reality, if you only put one leg down, it is really only a 2 point contact. If you put 2 legs down, it is a 3 point contact.

That being said, I usually always put only my left leg down. However as stated previously, if it is an extremely windy day, I will put my right foot down as well for stability.

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:54 pm
by HYPERR
MZ33 wrote:I believe it is more on the right than the left.
I would have guessed that and would have been willing to put money on it. :wink: Most people tend to be less coordinated when the bike tips to the right. It is simply because you are not used to the sensation of the bike tipping that way nor is your muscles familiar with that force. We are much more comfortable with the bike tipping to the left because we do it all the time when we mount and dismount.

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:20 am
by MZ33
I would have guessed that and would have been willing to put money on it.
'course, those uphill turns are to the right, as well. I don't have much swing room. But I have to replace the clutch lever one of these days due to the drops. My front brake lever is fine.

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:34 am
by HYPERR
MZ33 wrote:
I would have guessed that and would have been willing to put money on it.
'course, those uphill turns are to the right, as well. I don't have much swing room. But I have to replace the clutch lever one of these days due to the drops. My front brake lever is fine.
I've been riding for 22 years and even still, in deep mud on my dirtbike, I tend to dump it more on the right than the left. :mrgreen:

Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:58 am
by MZ33
Sorry, Joey, I seem to have hijacked your thread. :oops: Has any of this been helpful to you?

Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:36 pm
by HYPERR
MZ33 wrote:Sorry, Joey, I seem to have hijacked your thread. :oops: Has any of this been helpful to you?
Well like Lion Lady said, seat shaving and sliding your butt to the left and only putting one foot down at stoplights are two great methods to compensate for short inseam.

Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:53 pm
by Lion_Lady
If you tend to drop the bike to the right... think about it, the brake lever is in your right hand. If you pull the right grip toward you (unconsciously) while squeezing the brake lever, that will turn the bars to the right as you apply the brakes.

The result is then likely to be a tipover to the right.

(And, HYPER, tables and chairs are usually 4 legged for "insurance." Consider: If there's a problem with one leg on a four legged table/chair... it wobbles. If there's a problem on a THREE legged table or chair, it will fall over. :wink: )

P

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:52 am
by HYPERR
Lion_Lady wrote:
(And, HYPER, tables and chairs are usually 4 legged for "insurance." Consider: If there's a problem with one leg on a four legged table/chair... it wobbles. If there's a problem on a THREE legged table or chair, it will fall over. :wink: )

P
So in essence aren't you agreeing with me that 4 legs are more stable than 3? :wink:

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:17 am
by Lion_Lady
I wouldn't call "wobbling" stable. 3 legs/points of contact NEVER wobble.

P

Seat question

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:35 am
by srtgurly650
I can touch the ground but the seat that is on my v star 650 is too deep and I have to sit all the way up to push the brake and clutch. Any suggestions for a solo seat that I can do this and be comfortble?

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:06 pm
by RavenDee
Lion_Lady wrote:I wouldn't call "wobbling" stable. 3 legs/points of contact NEVER wobble.

P
So I guess that is why all those 4-legged critters out there are wobbling all over the place? Sorry, couldn't resist. If our legs were stiff and straight like table legs, I'd agree with your analogy. But they're not. :wink:

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:33 pm
by PacificShot327
I will further contribute to the hijacking of this thread. :-)

Three points of contact CAN be more stable than four points of contact. For them to be equally stable, all points of contact must be on the same plane.

However, in an object with four points of intended contact, if one of the points moves up or down along the z-axis, all four points can no longer make contact, and it becomes an object with three points of contact. The object ONLY wobbles due to weight transfer (for example, a chair that someone leans back and forth on - if they didn't lean toward the flawed leg, the chair is still functional because of the three points of contact. If one of the legs on a three legged chair moved up or down on the z-axis, it would still stand (although, if it moved up or down high enough, you might slide right off. :-) ).

It is not flawed to consider a motorcycle's tires as two points of contact. They may move together and be part of the same unit, but they are still 2 points in one segment, and all triangles consist of three segments. I see how Hyperr would say that it's considered one point, but if thought of as a single unit, it would still be a line segment, which still contains at least 2 "points". So really, you're both right, but there was some "off" terminology being used.

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:53 pm
by MZ33
Back to srtgurly650 with her seat problem: try asking on a V Star forum, like this one: http://www.650ccnd.com/ They very likely have experience with all kinds of custom options.

Re: Seat question

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:36 pm
by follow
srtgurly650 wrote:I can touch the ground but the seat that is on my v star 650 is too deep and I have to sit all the way up to push the brake and clutch. Any suggestions for a solo seat that I can do this and be comfortble?
Yeah a back rest.
I am 62" and a smidge...I use a backrest that pushes me forward which helps me reach. This is on a HD.
My other bike I had to have the seat shaved down to at least tippy toe.
So I feel your pain. I do the left foot on the ground stop.