Noob question about braking...

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dieziege
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#21 Unread post by dieziege »

Nibblet99 wrote:
bok wrote:
We get taught the priority is stopping, so we go down the line of quickest stop possible... Then shift to first whilst stationary, check all around and move to a clear area.
not saying this is a bad way to do it, but there is one problem. every once in a while the gears won't line up well and once you are at a full stop you can't shift down without rocking the bike forward or back.
Not trying to disagree, but briefly bringing the clutch to the bitepoint, moves them enough, and is far quicker
That's a good tidbit. :D

Here the official message is "pull the clutch and start banging on the shifter as you concentrate on braking" ... idea is to make downshifting automatic like a nervous twitch. In theory once trained the rider will downshift without realizing what he has done. In the few real-world hard stops I've done I always wound up just hitting the clutch and concentrating on braking/avoiding the cause of the braking though. :(

I suspect the UK MC training is pretty well thought out in most areas. As I understand it from 'net reading, attention is paid to being able to use the [rear] brake into and through a turn. Is that right? One of the major holes in my MSF-supplied education was how to handle complicated down-grades that converted to turns... after a few scary moments I wound up reading something British (;)) about braking in turns which helped quite a bit. :D
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Sev
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#22 Unread post by Sev »

I've found in my emergency braking that I usually forget about downshifting until about the last 5-10 feet then it's BAMBAMBAMBAMBAMBAMBAMBAMBAMBAMBAMBAMBAMBABAM etc etc etc on the shifter. I always end up in first and I can devote all of my attention to slowing down during those first vital seconds where I'm doing high speeds, as opposed to slow speeds where I'll jus tip or dent something I'm going to run into.
Of course I'm generalizing from a single example here, but everyone does that. At least I do.

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Chris8187
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#23 Unread post by Chris8187 »

Sweet Tooth wrote:
sharpmagna wrote: A drawback is if someone following you is unable to stop, you won't be in the right gear to maneuver.
and that is enough reason for me to gradualy down shift as I slow down. Plus what happens if midway while stopping you get a green light? You're in the wrong gear to get going again. It took me a little bit to get used to it, but now downshifting as I slow down isn't really an issue anymore. This is how I was taught to do it at the MSF.
You guys do way too many what ifs. What if the sun fell out of the sky? What if a meteor hit Earth? If you had to do an emergency stop and the vehicle is that close behind you or doesn't brake enough, do you think you have enough time to get out of the way anyway? I concentrate on braking completely than when I'm basically stopped, I shift into first and the gears don't get stuck since I'm still barely rolling. You guys think of too many situations that NEVER happen and the ones that do, the rider probably couldn't have avoided anyway. Maybe if motorcycles had a direct rearview mirror, it could be possible to escape a rear end collision, but who looks in their mirrors when they need to do an emergency stop until it would be too late?

Edit- I do what Sev does, since he explains it better.
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#24 Unread post by dieziege »

For normal stops, it is easiest just to clu-shif-declutch every few thousand RPM. That's what I do 99% of the time, car or bike.

For serious hard stops, i.e. when things are going wrong... it is easy to forget the shifting part.

To be totally honest, one time it was BRAKEskidRELEASEBRAKEskidBRAKEBRAKEBRAKE...the engine is dying CLUTCH-shiftshiftshiftshiftshiftshift... I guess that's a variation on what sev said...but the way sev said it misses the essential "oh fudge" nature of the event. ;)

Practice braking doesn't have the quality either... it is easy to cycle down through all the gears while doing a quick stop in a parking lot.
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#25 Unread post by Sev »

Chris8187 wrote: You guys do way too many what ifs. What if the sun fell out of the sky? What if a meteor hit Earth? If you had to do an emergency stop and the vehicle is that close behind you or doesn't brake enough, do you think you have enough time to get out of the way anyway? I concentrate on braking completely than when I'm basically stopped, I shift into first and the gears don't get stuck since I'm still barely rolling. You guys think of too many situations that NEVER happen and the ones that do, the rider probably couldn't have avoided anyway. Maybe if motorcycles had a direct rearview mirror, it could be possible to escape a rear end collision, but who looks in their mirrors when they need to do an emergency stop until it would be too late?
When I was taking my MSF course one of the instructors told us about something that had happened to him the week before.

He was cruising along on his ninja (this guy races for Kawasaki) when a pedestrian crossing light went off. He did his standard quick brake: pull in the clutch, get up on both brakes and tap it down to first.

He stopped with lots of time, he then did a shoulder check and saw two things:
1) the car behind him was stopping
2) the car behind that car was not

So he made sure the pedestrian was out of the way and gunned it.

The car that was directly behind him was propelled 15 meters (about 45 feet) past the crosswalk where he stopped.

If he hadn't been in first gear, and shoulder checked he probably would have been underneath the car that was behind him.

Now tell me again that it'll never happen?
Of course I'm generalizing from a single example here, but everyone does that. At least I do.

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#26 Unread post by allawybiker »

I think if you get used to downshifting while braking from the beginning it will become second nature and you will do it without even knowing...
I just moved to a new city last week (Calgary) and was riding at night when I suddenly noticed a stop sign where I least expected it. I was doing 40mph and had to perform an emergency stop. I am happy to report that the emergency stop worked perfectly, stopped just 3ft beyond the line, didn't lock the rear wheel (wobbled a little), and was pleasantly surprised to discover after the stop that my gear was in 1st! I didn't even realize that I had downshifted :)
So get used to downshifting as part of your normal stopping procedure and that might take care of it...

Good luck
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Braking and downshifting

#27 Unread post by M109R »

I agree with braking and downshifting. The more you practice and make a point of doing it it will become 2nd nature and not take any extra time.

We do have two feet doing the work here not one and everyone reading this has two brain hemispheres and can scratch their head and rub their stomach at the same time using both hands so why not downshift and brake simultaneously.....

Being in 1st gear when it counts may give you that extra chance to save your life.

Practice practice practice.....
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