Darwin vs Deity

[cb360]

Btw, dinosaur footprints have been found in the same sedimentary layer as human ones.

And that means what to you exactly? First of all, that's false. I'm all for everyone believing what they wish and I certainly don't wish to turn a civil discussion into an argument, but I admit that it bothers me when creationists attack honest science with half-baked hypotheses based on some unconfirmed hocus-pocus they read on some ideologue's website somewhere. You can't it both ways - if you don't believe in evolution, fine, but don't try to use science (i.e. geology and the study of sediment) to attack evolutionary theory when you don't hold the bible to the same standards. Believing in a divine creator is one thing - but this ' the earth is only 6,000 years old' stuff is a whole other story.

[Sev]

Me posting in this thread is a mistake. I'm going to sit here and pontificate as to why God cannot exist. I've thought about it a lot and to me there is no doubt. There is no God. Or if there is, and that's a big IF to me, IF there is then Religion is "messed". No other way to explain it, religion itself is flawed. Because it's either delivering a message that God does not intend - holy wars, crusades, witch burnings, stonings, damning of souls for imaginary sins, collection of money... he's allpowerful, allwise, allknowing, but he just cannot seem to hold onto cash.
Organized Western Religion sickens me. It's all based upon making you feel bad about the things that you do. Then immediate forgiveness is granted should you commit a "sin." So we make you feel bad for wanting to have sex, but we tell you it's okay. This does two things: 1) you know that the priest knows what you have done, premanent guilt. 2) the priest and through him God has forgiven you. This creates a feeling of debt, as the surest way to make someone like you is to tell them they are evil, but it is okay.

A man inferior with the blade, or with his thoughts can still elevate himself, if he can impart the belief that some God or other speaks through him. It is the greatest deception in all the world, and one embraced by kings and lords, while minor theives on the street lose their hands for attempting to coax the purse of others.
- Artemis Entriri

The next choice would be to attack God himself, for it's such an easy thing to do. Options include other religions based around other Gods: Egpytian, Aztec, Chinese, Japanese etc etc etc
The fact that God himself is evil? You didn't know? Humans are created in God's own image, we are representations of him. However humans are inherantly evil. It is fear of the consequences that prevents humans from taking inapropriate actions. "I'd get caught, I'd feel bad, God would know." Are all the reasons for not... stealing, killing, everything. But should those 3 self-decpetions be removed there is nothing to stop you from taking that million dollars, killing that rival, running away from your obligations. We represent what God is... and we don't speak well of God.
Or if God is an infinite being - which means he can NEVER encounter something that is not himself, God is the devil, God is evil. I've been told that I do not correctly ubderstand the meaning of infinite, but infinite means no boundaries, correct? He is technically everything. So there cannot be conflict between God and the devil if they are one and the same...
I don't know, just some thoughts I've had over the last couple of years...

[vulcanman500]

What you are discribining is SIN. We were not like this at first. we were decieved. God is NOT EVIL. He cast satan down becuase satan wanted the glory for himself. The Lord is in ALL WAYS good. He is not flawed in any way. We chose to go our own way. And your consience will testify that the law of God is written in your heart.(i can't rmember the verse right now.) Sev, these may be your ideas, but they are dangerous for you to enertain them. If anyone should decide to pray or confess sin, do it to God not to someone else. Jesus is the only LIVING priest who can fully remove all our blemishes. He will hear you and answer you when you call on him with the right motives. If someone doesn't have a bible you should get one and read it. And if you do, you will see that God is not evil, but he will punish the devil for all the Evil he has done against His name.

[Telesque]

You know, there's a verse in the bible that refers to 'Firey flying lizards' (depending on the translation, I guess, but it's essentially the same idea in any of them).

Any idea what that's supposed to mean? (And it's a physical reference, not part of a prophecy)

-

I'm down for the idea of Creation, but I'm not going to say that Evolution is out of the question- Or, rather, extended adaptation. It's obvious (really, quite) that if God created two of anything, be it Amoebas, Human-like primate ancestors, or even that classical Human Adam & Eve, that there has been a definite amount of adaptation from then to now. If you go back to the idea of Creationism- back to two people- and you come out of the deal with billions of people with millions of differences, then obviuosly there's been /some/ sort of adaptation. Black, white, giant, midget, limber and tall, short and stocky- even albinos- all coming from two people? Over the course of thousands (or longer) of years? At which point do you decide what is 'extended adaptation' and what is 'evolution'?

So, either life came from no where, with no scientific explanation, or life came from an almighty unquantifiable being with no scientific explanation. Either way, one's just as reasonable to believe as the other, just dealing with the scientific/religious soup is the big dillema.

[vulcanman500]

Sometimes science reveals answers we don't think are true. One thing that is cool about being a Christian is that God Is the Creator. Meaning that he gave us the ability to learn and observe our surroundings. We have the thinking power to test All theories and supspicions before coming to a conclusion. So is science limited to any one particular group? Of course not. Science is available for everyone to use at their free will. Most of what we think of science is the "I wonder what happens if I do this " mind set. Kinda like if you were to make koolaid without sugar, how many cups will it take for it to taste good? I'm not sure about the dinosaur and man footprints. I'll have to look into it. But as a Christian I can say that God is God of science. And I have enough faith to hold the Bible to the same testing standards as evolution.

Telesque mentioned different races and size variations of man. I think its pretty cool personally. But notice that these "Adaptations" of the human race do not change humanity's gean sequence. There is Actual living proof of Dwarf or Midget couples have kids that are "normal " size. When a black and white couple have a child does that child cease to be a human? Or does it move on to some other form of so called mutation that leads to a new species? The child is still human. I believe in adaptation WITHIN a species. Thats why wolves are different than chihuahuas. But their classifications are both K9. Any one who farms probably knows this next one. If you take a horse and a donkey, I believe you get a mule(correct me if I'm wrong). But the strange thing is that the mule can't reproduce. (???) Why is that? God's plan is everywhere. We just have to be open enough to look for it. A good question to ponder is - If God were to reveal Himself to me, would I be willing to see Him? Take a look around. He's closer than you think.

[Telesque]

Any one who farms probably knows this next one. If you take a horse and a donkey, I believe you get a mule(correct me if I'm wrong). But the strange thing is that the mule can't reproduce. (???) Why is that?

Interspecies breeding is generally ineffective altogether. Some species (apparently because of similarity) will have the ability to breed outside their specie, but the resulting offspring is (almost always) infertile. Mice and Parrots can't produce offspring because their DNA is so different. A horse and a donkey are a bit closer together.

Edit: When I said 'Mice and Parrots', I meant 'Together'. I'm not even going to suggest how a mouse and a parrot would get it on, but if they managed, they'd still have no luck.

[cb360]

All right Vulcanman500. I think you're a good guy and I'm down with your intentions and I'm glad you've got this all figured out to your satisfaction. But please, do yourself a favor and stick to theology. I know you mean well, but you don't know the first thing about genetics. Of course dwarves can have a 'normal' child. There are different kinds of dwarfism and the genetic differences can be pretty complex. If anyone cares, dogs are canis familiaris and wolves are canis lupus and "gene", as in "genetics" is not spelled 'gean'. I'm not sure where we were going with the black and white people reproducing - that is pretty simple from a genetic standpoint. And god's plan about interspecies coupling resulting in a sterile mule? I don't know a lot about animal husbandry or livestock in general - but I'm pretty sure the answer is not in the bible and I'm certain a geneticist could tell you all the details.

But notice that these "Adaptations" of the human race do not change humanity's gean sequence.

OK. WTF does that mean? It doesn't mean anything at all! It's a complete and utter non-sequitur. I'm sure you know a lot about the bible... but you don't know anything about genetics. I mean really... less than nothing. It's negative knowledge.

You are cool with your spirituality... why do you feel the need to even deal with this stuff? I have no faith. You have plenty of it. Faith is the absolute antithesis of science. I don't understand the need to reconcile the two.

I think I'm done here. My frustration level is getting high and I don't think I'm going to learn anything. I shouldn't have come in here. Have a nice discussion.

[Telesque]

It is fear of the consequences that prevents humans from taking inapropriate actions. "I'd get caught, I'd feel bad, God would know." Are all the reasons for not... stealing, killing, everything. But should those 3 self-decpetions be removed there is nothing to stop you from taking that million dollars, killing that rival, running away from your obligations.

Hey now- I know a good amount of aethiests who don't run around killing people.

[houk]

There is no God. Or if there is, and that's a big IF to me

Personally I disagree with this statement, but one thing for sure, everyone of us here is going to find out. No scientist has figured out a way to avoid death. I just cant believe that everything got here by accident, or from some germ swimming in a puddle way back when. I cant see the wind, but I know its there

[Telesque]

There is no God. Or if there is, and that's a big IF to me

A great majority of humans believe in a God of some sort or other. Aethiests are a minority, really, and so I find it interesting that many can't, at all, seem to understand how anybody could possibly think a God exists. Between Islam, Judaeism, and Christianity alone you're dealing with a very substantial portion of the human population- Not to mention all the lesser religions, ranging from tribal beliefs to paganism, satanism, and so on.

I'm not saying that everyone should believe in a God, but I do think it is both ignorant and irresponsible to discard the possibility of 'paranormal beings'. Can all reported sightings/visions/encounters/etc simply be chalked up to hacks and loons? That's a pretty incredible statement, if so.