when is it too much?

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#11 Unread post by **Koss** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:19 pm

Something else to consider is the weight of the bike, not just the dry weight but fully loaded with fuel. Just something to consider as closely as hp numbers.

As previously stated, the stickies up top do an excellent job of spreading the knowledge on acceptable bikes.

Sev · #12 Unread post by **Sev** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:47 am

The Crimson Rider® wrote:
Shorts wrote:By what, 2-3hp?

I don't care, buy what you want, its not my butt. If stay on and in one piece, good. If not, too bad.
the EX500 is in the mid50s

the GS500 is 52 IIRC.

bikes the M50, another good newbie bike, have 57bhp.

so 60bhp seems like a fair estimate.

Bikes like the M50 also wiegh in the neighbourhood of 600lbs. And to me, are only a beginner bike if you're a bigger guy. I wouldn't ride one as a first bike... hell I don't even like to ride one now.

There are more factors then just HP that go into what makes a good and what makes a bad starter (not newbie as that's actually a detrimental term) bike.

You need to look at weight, power, torque, balance, seat height, cost, ergonomics, and finally availibility of both the bike and parts. And even these are not the only factors that are taken into account by an experienced rider when he recomends a bike.

Verm, your ability to latch onto a single fact and bend then twist and warp it into whatever supports your own personal viewpoint is absolutely astounding, and I almost envy you that. In now way are you limited by reality in your decision making process.

VermilionX · Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:00 am

Sevulturus wrote: Bikes like the M50 also wiegh in the neighbourhood of 600lbs. And to me, are only a beginner bike if you're a bigger guy. I wouldn't ride one as a first bike... hell I don't even like to ride one now.

There are more factors then just HP that go into what makes a good and what makes a bad starter (not newbie as that's actually a detrimental term) bike.

You need to look at weight, power, torque, balance, seat height, cost, ergonomics, and finally availibility of both the bike and parts. And even these are not the only factors that are taken into account by an experienced rider when he recomends a bike.

Verm, your ability to latch onto a single fact and bend then twist and warp it into whatever supports your own personal viewpoint is absolutely astounding, and I almost envy you that. In now way are you limited by reality in your decision making process.

did you miss that i mentioned "generally speaking" ?

did you also miss that i mentioned a newbie bike must have a wide area of forgiveness to rider errors?

MotoF150 · Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:20 pm

Dear Mr. Crimson Rider,, did you say the M50 has 57 HP????? ha ha ha ha ha ! Sir!! I own an M50 and its no 57 HP !!!! Its somewhere around 38 to 42 HP. I say the M50 is the worst bike for a beginner, ITS HEAVY! ITS UNDERPOWERED! ITS TOO HARD TO RIDE AND HANDLE!

stumpy56 · #15 Unread post by **stumpy56** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:24 pm

im about to be very nooblike... wtf is this "hp", and what does it have to do with anything?

VermilionX · Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:26 pm

MotoF150 wrote:Dear Mr. Crimson Rider,, did you say the M50 has 57 HP????? ha ha ha ha ha ! Sir!! I own an M50 and its no 57 HP !!!! Its somewhere around 38 to 42 HP. I say the M50 is the worst bike for a beginner, ITS HEAVY! ITS UNDERPOWERED! ITS TOO HARD TO RIDE AND HANDLE!

i said bhp.

the 38-42 you're saying must be the rwhp.

VermilionX · Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:29 pm

stumpy56 wrote:im about to be very nooblike... wtf is this "hp", and what does it have to do with anything?

hp = horsepower.

bhp = is the hp at the crank

whp = is the real hp, since it includes the drivetrain hp loss and it's what your bike is really putting out to the wheels.

it's easier to mention bhp since it's most commonly listed.

anyway... it's not recommended to start on a very powerful bike since it's less forgiving to rider errors.

Flak Monkey · Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:21 pm

Sevulturus wrote: Bikes like the M50 also wiegh in the neighbourhood of 600lbs. And to me, are only a beginner bike if you're a bigger guy. I wouldn't ride one as a first bike... hell I don't even like to ride one now.

Another thing to remember is weight distribution (you mentioned this but I wanted to elaborate) is that weight alone doesn't tell you much about how a bike's gonna feel. My KZ is about 525lbs but it's harder to balance and move around than a full dress Harley tourer I'm used to dealing with. It's very important to get actual hands on time with the bike in question before making a decision.
_________________
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#19 Unread post by **Koss** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:25 pm

The Crimson Rider® wrote:
Sevulturus wrote: Bikes like the M50 also wiegh in the neighbourhood of 600lbs. And to me, are only a beginner bike if you're a bigger guy. I wouldn't ride one as a first bike... hell I don't even like to ride one now.

There are more factors then just HP that go into what makes a good and what makes a bad starter (not newbie as that's actually a detrimental term) bike.

You need to look at weight, power, torque, balance, seat height, cost, ergonomics, and finally availibility of both the bike and parts. And even these are not the only factors that are taken into account by an experienced rider when he recomends a bike.

Verm, your ability to latch onto a single fact and bend then twist and warp it into whatever supports your own personal viewpoint is absolutely astounding, and I almost envy you that. In now way are you limited by reality in your decision making process.
did you miss that i mentioned "generally speaking" ?

did you also miss that i mentioned a newbie bike must have a wide area of forgiveness to rider errors?

Its a good thing Sev stated some of those things people should keep in mind. Its easy to get caught up in surface details. A bike is just much more than its seating position or power to weight ratio, or quarter mile time slips (Don't get me wrong, Im not directing all this at you Verm, just saying people in general)

But what I will say is that when someone new to the never ending world of motorcycling hears generally speaking, or user-friendliness... they won't pick up on the sutble details like sev or any experienced rider would, because they have no idea what to look for in the first place. Sometimes people experience something, say its good... but can't explain why its so good. They just say, "Oh... it just clicks." or "Its made of a single piece of billet". That dosn't help others out very much.

MotoF150 · Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:34 pm

Any good beginner bike is a lightweight bike thats easy to ride and control, the right bike can make a beginner look like a pro riding it, like any crotch rocket you watch guys riding wheelies and you think those guys are pros, but the truth is anybody can ride a wheelie on a crotch rocket, its easy to do, they are powerful, lightweight, easy to control, the radial tires stick to the road like glue. The heavy weight cruiser bikes are not designed to go fast and easy to control, ur body weight has no effect on them, you have to have skill and work hard doing it to steer them into a hairpin curve, the M50 is terrible, its just as heavy as a 1600cc bike, but the engine is way underpowered, its like riding a HD Road King with a 250cc engine.