Low-sided TWICE in ONE day...arggg!

[krisptoast]

So I've had my first bike for a few days (1996 Ninja 500) and I've ben riding it around my neigborhood on the side streets. It felt like the steering was very sluggish, so I checked the air pressure, and it was way too low, so I decided to go over to the nearest gas station and fill them up. Just as I was turning onto the main street from a stop, I felt like I was turning wide, leaned too much, and low-sided on the right side. I was pretty pissed, but there was no major damage (broken turn signal, bent both brake levers), so I went and filled my tires.

Then, later on I decided to go for a ride, and as I was pulling out of the driveway, I got going too fast, tried to turn quickly, and ended up low-siding on the left side. Ahhh! This one was worse because it messed up the faring pretty badly, cracked the windshield, broke the other turn signal, and bent the shifter. I got a few scrapes, but nothing serious.

I am definitely having major problems making sharp turns from a complete stop. It seems that when I try to go slowly I end up stalling, so I end up applying too much throttle, and then lose control. By the way, I took the MSF class and did fine, but we didn't really practice turning sharply from a stop. Anyway, If anyone has any advice, I'd appreciate it.

I'm definitely glad I went with a cheap bike for my first .

P.S. If anyone knows a good mechanic in Austin, I could really use one. I need to get the bike inspected, and I want to get it checked out anyway to make sure everything is good to go.

[WVUChrome]

Take the bike to a parking lot, haul it there if you can, and practice stops and turns. It sounds like you don't quite have adequate clutch control yet. When you are taking off going straight, do the RPM's rev pretty high before settling back down? If so, you may be using too much throttle. This is the symptom, not the problem. The problem is you are not sure where the clutch's friction zone is so you over compensate by over throttling and letting the clutch out too slow.

Just my $0.02, what does everyone else think?

Later,
WVUChrome...

[Koss]

Heya Krisptoast! Cool name, I just recently changed my avatar icon last night, but it fits you perfectly.



Anywho, clutch control sounds like your biggest problem right now. Your clutch lever should be adjustable(push out, turn the chrome dial to the number you want, which will be lined up with a triangle on the mounting hardware for the lever), so adjust it to your liking. Practice your clutch's friction zone (use the same practice as you did in the very beginning of your MSF course) and just get a feel for it. Then when you are turning and taking off, slowly release enough clutch so that you feel it "engage" the engine to the rear wheel, and turn the handle bars. I know it sounds silly, but sometimes we may turn the handle bars before we start moving, and it makes the bike unstable. Just trying to cover all the bases here, no offense.

Instead of controling your speed with your throttle during a turn, esp. a sharp turn, use your clutch. Remember the figure 8 u-turn practice in the msf course, where you have to keep within the yellow box? use the same technique there, at least when it comes to clutch control. You should input a modest amount of throttle, and keep it the same while you just adjust your speed using the clutch. And don't touch your front brake ever in a sharp turn. Esp. at low speeds.

If you still have trouble, try doing sharp turns in second gear. It would be ALOT harder to do it in second gear from a stop though. So it wouldn't apply in this condition. But second gear is less responsive to throttle input than first gear is.

Have fun, be careful, and stay safe!

[Shorts]

Sounds like more low speed practice would do the trick. Assuming you've ruled out road conditions and tire issues that would cause a low-side (oil, wet road paint, etc).

Like said above. Go to an empty parking lot and practice turning sharp from stop. I did a lot of this work using the parking slot lines and intersections of he parking lot sections. I'd stop in the slot or entrance, complete stop, then take off right or left. You'll want to let the clutch do the work. Now, you can add necessary throttle, but really the friction zone in a flat road can get you rolling. On cold tires, you don't want to really lean over and peel out...not enough grip in cold tires and well, you'll slide out...like you experienced.

When the bike is cold, take it easy as use conservative riding for a few.

[Kal]

Bags of revs and Feather the clutch.

[krisptoast]

Yeah, I should steal your old avatar Koss. Anyway, thanks for the advice guys, it's very useful. As you guys said, clutch control is definitely what has been giving me the most problems so far. What do you guys rev the engine to when starting from first? I can start out very slowly with about 2k revs, holding the clutch in the friction zone, but then I need to rev higher in order to let the clutch out more. If I leave the revs at 2-3k and let the clutch out, I stall. Should I just rev higher, and hold it at that speed until the clutch is all the way out? Also, I have tried adjusting the clutch to make the friction zone broader, but it still seems to engage pretty abruptly compared to the Kawa Eliminator I used in MSF.

[Koss]

Yeah, I should steal your old avatar Koss. Anyway, thanks for the advice guys, it's very useful. As you guys said, clutch control is definitely what has been giving me the most problems so far. What do you guys rev the engine to when starting from first? I can start out very slowly with about 2k revs, holding the clutch in the friction zone, but then I need to rev higher in order to let the clutch out more. If I leave the revs at 2-3k and let the clutch out, I stall. Should I just rev higher, and hold it at that speed until the clutch is all the way out? Also, I have tried adjusting the clutch to make the friction zone broader, but it still seems to engage pretty abruptly compared to the Kawa Eliminator I used in MSF.

I don't mind if you do, it fits you better anyways hehehe

I think the best way to look at it with our bikes (ninja 500r) is that, you dont ever want to be below 3,000 rpm. So when you totally release the clutch, you should be at 3,000rpm or 4,000 rpm. Thats how I do it. Be careful about revving up and releasing the clutch with to much rpm's. Today I found out (on purpose hehehehe) that its easy to pop wheelies at 4,000 rpms from a stop. Really high wheelies. REALLY high.

I have to really think hard about it, but I think I rev the engine to about 2,000 rpms. slowly release the clutch out and stop in the right part of the friction zone... hold the clutch there and slightly give more throttle, holding both the clutch and throttle in the sweet spots until the bikes speed catchs up with the amount of rpm's the bikes at in first gear, then release the clutch and find myself at 3,000+rpm.

Tomorrow when I go for a ride Ill make sure to make mental notes on how I do it.

Just keep practicing! If you worry about how many rpms your at, what speed your at, and all the numbers... you are paying to much attention to your guages and not enough on the road and whats infront of you. That can be dangerous, and hold you back from getting better with riding in all aspects.

[Social Distortion]

be saafe out there
i'd make sure that i stop well far from the stoppping point at your stop sign or light. I'd then go straight to get some momentum and throttle through your turn.
hang in there

[Kal]

In the interests of science I've just taken the bike out for a bit of a run during my lunch.

Pulling away from the lights I am doing 3k by the time I've completed the turn. 2k leads to a very upright, slow turn.

What I will say is don't get too hung up on the rev counter. The bike will tell you what it wants - if the motor is chugging then down one gear, if its getting high pitched then its time to change up.

For low speed work it dosnt matter what the righthand is doing as long as the engine has enough revs - all of the low speed work is controlled by your left hand slipping into and out of the bite point on the clutch.

For reference only

The CB500 I am on redlines somewhere around 10,500
I change down a gear at around 4,000 and change up around 6,000

The bikes owner tells me she will happily wander around town at 3,000 and the powerband exists just north of 8,000

[qwerty]

I agree with the clutch control issue. Street bikes often are geared too high in first for good behavior at slow speeds. Solution: slip the clutch and trailbrake.

Start off like normal, just a bit of throttle and begin to engage the clutch slowly. Once the bike is moving, hold the clutch and throttle at those points and apply the rear brake enough to keep the bike from accelerating. Let the engine rev enough it doesn't stall, and let the clutch slip against the brake. When done properly, the bike will not buck, snort, or exhibit any other nasty behavior. Practice in a straight line, slipping the clutch and trailbraking for 3-5 seconds (more than enough time to make a turn), then release the brake and continue to accelerate normally. Then add your turn into that 3-5 seconds of trailbraking.

If your bike will slow to an idle in first gear and not stall, it will take off in first gear without throttle. You simply have to learn clutch control. In fact, my TW200 will idle along in third with no throttle at all. On a $50 bet, I started off in third with no throttle at all, just slipping the clutch. It took about 20 seconds to go from stop to fully released clutch, but I won $50.

Point is, throttle position and rpm determine engine output. The clutch determines how much of that engine output goes to the wheel. The clutch is not an on-off switch.