You are a Beginner and want a 600cc+ sportbike? READ THIS!

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DivideOverflow
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#41 Unread post by DivideOverflow »

Peter Y wrote:
why ask if your not going to listen to them? they are both right... they are also being REALLY nice to encourage you to start on a safer beginner bike. But ill say this to you straight: no, of course your not ready for a 600CC after some little "rigorous" tests. I am sure it's difficult but it is no match with having two or three years of experience on the road... Since you already got your bike there's nothing anyone can do
U know I wanted to ask because I do value all the comments and guidance I get from this site. The fact that the passion I had to get a 600CC outweighed the commentary does not mean I do not take into account what was said.

I had my first weekend with the bike and took it nice and slow. Cautious and alert. I think the issue now is that Im so concious about the fact that this is a fast and powerful bike that I im reluctant to use its speed and power . I dunno if thats funny , ironic or what????
First of all, I noticed that you got a GSX 600... that is a katana, that isn't a race replica bike. It is generally considered the slower version. However, it is a top heavy pig, and I rarely suggest those bikes to anyone, regardless of riding ability.

Your riding requirements aren't that much more than the US, we don't have to wait six months, but we have to do a written theory/traffic laws test, and do a driving test with specific exercises set up (u-turns, fast turns, weaving, emergency braking, running over objects, etc).

Passion is bullshiat. You are an immature person who had to have what you had to have, reason be damned. Everyone: "That isn't a good idea", You: "Well, I don't care what you say, I want it!!"

People come on here are argue their crap all the time. Always wanting to get someone to agree with them. Face it, you made an immature decision, and barely anyone will support you in it. All I have to say is at least you didn't get a GSXR.
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Peter Y
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#42 Unread post by Peter Y »

Passion is bullshiat. You are an immature person who had to have what you had to have, reason be damned. Everyone: "That isn't a good idea", You: "Well, I don't care what you say, I want it!!"

People come on here are argue their "crumb" all the time. Always wanting to get someone to agree with them. Face it, you made an immature decision, and barely anyone will support you in it. All I have to say is at least you didn't get a GSXR
Wow u know I feel like im in HUGE trouble now :laughing: I know your intentions are well but honestly Im mature and older enough to handle this(quite older than you may think). You can always generalise and make assumptions about a certain population,(sample of people) however there will always be individuals that dont fit into that population who wil behave, act, perform in a different manner that does not fit with the currently displayed trend. THATS ME.

I agree with your comments on the Heavy bike. Its a true pig I tried wheeling it into my garage and dam it was an effort. The other point is you can get into as much trouble travelling 80Kms an hour than you could travelling 180Kms an hour.

Never the less I appreciate your comments and view them constructivley. My next bike will be a HAYABUSA !!!!!!

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#43 Unread post by Shorts »

PeterY, I think maturity will dictate the way you act on the bike. But, fact is, you're still a young rider, regardless of how mature.

Though I don't agree "passion" is the word for it. If you truly had passion for the sport, you'd actually care about the learning process enough to want to soak up as much skill as possible from a better first bike. Anyway, you made your decision. Take care with it.

Divide was correct in the process of getting a bike license in the US.

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#44 Unread post by DivideOverflow »

Peter Y wrote:
Passion is bullshiat. You are an immature person who had to have what you had to have, reason be damned. Everyone: "That isn't a good idea", You: "Well, I don't care what you say, I want it!!"

People come on here are argue their "crumb" all the time. Always wanting to get someone to agree with them. Face it, you made an immature decision, and barely anyone will support you in it. All I have to say is at least you didn't get a GSXR
Wow u know I feel like im in HUGE trouble now :laughing: I know your intentions are well but honestly Im mature and older enough to handle this(quite older than you may think). You can always generalise and make assumptions about a certain population,(sample of people) however there will always be individuals that dont fit into that population who wil behave, act, perform in a different manner that does not fit with the currently displayed trend. THATS ME.

I agree with your comments on the Heavy bike. Its a true pig I tried wheeling it into my garage and dam it was an effort. The other point is you can get into as much trouble travelling 80Kms an hour than you could travelling 180Kms an hour.

Never the less I appreciate your comments and view them constructivley. My next bike will be a HAYABUSA !!!!!!
I didn't make any claims to your age... you could be 40 for all I care. It doesn't change the fact that you have approached the entire situation immaturely. Here's another clue... EVERYONE who comes on here always thinks they are the exception. "I am so much safer and more mature than everyone else my age ever!!!tehone!!"

I wasn't saying that you would ride irresponsibly, just that you have little experience, so your intentions don't mean a damn. If you get into a sticky situation, you are more likely to be hurt on a bike of this nature, than a more appropriately sized bike for beginners.

Also, the actual speed has nothing to do with it. There is a guy had been riding 10 years, and logged about 75,000 miles. He had about 2,500 miles on his ZX-14 before pulling an accidental wheelie while trying to pass/merge, looping the bike, and breaking his back. He was a mature, safe rider. But the bike he chose was outside of his skill level, and in a situation where he had to merge quickly, he accidently goosed it and flipped the bike on its "O Ring".
http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/ind ... 667.0.html

Like I said, your intentions don't matter. It has to do with the amount of seat time and experience, which you don't have.
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#45 Unread post by Peter Y »

Also, the actual speed has nothing to do with it. There is a guy had been riding 10 years, and logged about 75,000 miles. He had about 2,500 miles on his ZX-14 before pulling an accidental wheelie while trying to pass/merge, looping the bike, and breaking his back. He was a mature, safe rider.
U know Im not going to pretend that I disagree with the majority of what your saying HOWEVER the whole concept of not having enough experience to manage a 600CC is based on the assumption that im either going to "twist the wrist" accidently or use this power inappropriatley(like in the example above). So If I had a bike with exactly the same specification except that it was a 400CC or something would that fix everything? Would I then have made a smart choice? With technology and R&D in todays environment you are much more likley to "flip" or speed with even a smaller bike than you would with a larger bike. Does a four cylinder sports car pose less a threat than a 8 cylinder sports car?? I doubt it. They are both capable of doing high speeds very very quickly. I do feel Passionate about this and I do feel I can manage this bike. Plus the bike I have purchased is hardly a "Crotch Rocket".

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#46 Unread post by Fast Eddy B »

Peter Y wrote:
the whole concept of not having enough experience to manage a 600CC is based on the assumption that im either going to "twist the wrist" accidently or use this power inappropriatley(like in the example above). So If I had a bike with exactly the same specification except that it was a 400CC or something would that fix everything?
less torque/power = less driving force, less displacement = less torque/power, so yes, it would.

Peter Y wrote: With technology and R&D in todays environment you are much more likley to "flip" or speed with even a smaller bike than you would with a larger bike.
i've never heard that. i've never felt that having ridden two 125's, a 500, a 600, and a v-twin 1000. anybody else?

Peter Y wrote:Does a four cylinder sports car pose less a threat than a 8 cylinder sports car?? I doubt it.
depends on the driver. let's not talk cylinders, how about bhp? or even better, power to weight ratio? most often, with less experience, less power is safer. it's tough to argue against this one.
Peter Y wrote: I do feel Passionate about this and I do feel I can manage this bike. Plus the bike I have purchased is hardly a "Crotch Rocket".
i have no idea who you are, how you ride, or anything else. with a good attitude, discipline, practice, MORE TRAINING and luck (we all need this) you'll be fine. nobody here is going to stand up and say "get a 600". not even me, and i'm probably the most in your corner.

but no more...if you've got the attitude, the passion and the maturity then you don't need me. so good luck.
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#47 Unread post by Dragonhawk »

Peter Y wrote:With technology and R&D in todays environment you are much more likley to "flip" or speed with even a smaller bike than you would with a larger bike.
:lol:

That doesn't even make any logical sense. If that was true, then people would be safe on GSXR-750s and killing themselves on 50cc mopeds.

No. Your statement is a completely inane, untrue arguement made by people who know nothing about motorcycles (or basic laws of physics) and are attempting to justify their desire for a bike that is too powerful for them.
[b]Are you a beginner rider?
Have a lot of questions about motorcycling?
Not sure what bike to start with?
[url=http://www.wyndfeather.com/learn/motorcycle.htm]Learn To Ride A Motorcycle - A Step-By-Step Guide[/url][/b]

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#48 Unread post by DivideOverflow »

Peter Y wrote:
Also, the actual speed has nothing to do with it. There is a guy had been riding 10 years, and logged about 75,000 miles. He had about 2,500 miles on his ZX-14 before pulling an accidental wheelie while trying to pass/merge, looping the bike, and breaking his back. He was a mature, safe rider.
U know Im not going to pretend that I disagree with the majority of what your saying HOWEVER the whole concept of not having enough experience to manage a 600CC is based on the assumption that im either going to "twist the wrist" accidently or use this power inappropriatley(like in the example above). So If I had a bike with exactly the same specification except that it was a 400CC or something would that fix everything? Would I then have made a smart choice? With technology and R&D in todays environment you are much more likley to "flip" or speed with even a smaller bike than you would with a larger bike. Does a four cylinder sports car pose less a threat than a 8 cylinder sports car?? I doubt it. They are both capable of doing high speeds very very quickly. I do feel Passionate about this and I do feel I can manage this bike. Plus the bike I have purchased is hardly a "Crotch Rocket".
It isn't that you will use it inappropriately, but shiat happens. That guy has WAY more experience than you, and he messed up. You aren't flawless. Also, there is a lot more to handling a sportsbike than a standard or cruiser. Power to weight ratio is the biggest issue, but also seating position, weight distribution, slow speed management, rake angle, etc etc etc etc etc. The rake on sportbikes generally makes the steering more precise for corners, which results in being less stable than a cruiser, or more conservative setup. With a Katana, add the top-heavy nature of that bike, and it leads to some shoddy steering characteristics (which is generally why I don't recommend that bike to anyone).

And no, you are not more likely to flip a smaller bike. You are just showing that you know very little about bikes on the market. And yes, a 8 cylinder sports car does pose much more of a threat to a new rider. V8 sports cars are almost always rear-wheel drive, and have massive amounts of torque. It is the torque-steer that will make a FWD difficult to handle, but it will make the RWD car spin in circles. This makes it easier to lose traction and send your car spinning in a circle. I know, I've driven highpowered V8s and highpowered FWD cars. In a FWD car, if you spin the tires, you generally keep going straight... in RWD, it is much easier to lose it. Plus, with the extra torque of an 8, it is 100 times easier to spin the tires accidently. Not to mention, V8 cars generally weigh more, making their handling trickier.

Anything else? You seem to be 0 for 2 so far. Oh, nvm, 0 for 3, you bought a 600 as your first bike.
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2005 Ducati SS 1000DS - sold :'(
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1984 VF700F Interceptor - sold
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#49 Unread post by eaglecatcher »

DivideOverflow wrote:
Peter Y wrote:
Also, the actual speed has nothing to do with it. There is a guy had been riding 10 years, and logged about 75,000 miles. He had about 2,500 miles on his ZX-14 before pulling an accidental wheelie while trying to pass/merge, looping the bike, and breaking his back. He was a mature, safe rider.
U know Im not going to pretend that I disagree with the majority of what your saying HOWEVER the whole concept of not having enough experience to manage a 600CC is based on the assumption that im either going to "twist the wrist" accidently or use this power inappropriatley(like in the example above). So If I had a bike with exactly the same specification except that it was a 400CC or something would that fix everything? Would I then have made a smart choice? With technology and R&D in todays environment you are much more likley to "flip" or speed with even a smaller bike than you would with a larger bike. Does a four cylinder sports car pose less a threat than a 8 cylinder sports car?? I doubt it. They are both capable of doing high speeds very very quickly. I do feel Passionate about this and I do feel I can manage this bike. Plus the bike I have purchased is hardly a "Crotch Rocket".
It isn't that you will use it inappropriately, but shiat happens. That guy has WAY more experience than you, and he messed up. You aren't flawless. Also, there is a lot more to handling a sportsbike than a standard or cruiser. Power to weight ratio is the biggest issue, but also seating position, weight distribution, slow speed management, rake angle, etc etc etc etc etc. The rake on sportbikes generally makes the steering more precise for corners, which results in being less stable than a cruiser, or more conservative setup. With a Katana, add the top-heavy nature of that bike, and it leads to some shoddy steering characteristics (which is generally why I don't recommend that bike to anyone).

And no, you are not more likely to flip a smaller bike. You are just showing that you know very little about bikes on the market. And yes, a 8 cylinder sports car does pose much more of a threat to a new rider. V8 sports cars are almost always rear-wheel drive, and have massive amounts of torque. It is the torque-steer that will make a FWD difficult to handle, but it will make the RWD car spin in circles. This makes it easier to lose traction and send your car spinning in a circle. I know, I've driven highpowered V8s and highpowered FWD cars. In a FWD car, if you spin the tires, you generally keep going straight... in RWD, it is much easier to lose it. Plus, with the extra torque of an 8, it is 100 times easier to spin the tires accidently. Not to mention, V8 cars generally weigh more, making their handling trickier.

Anything else? You seem to be 0 for 2 so far. Oh, nvm, 0 for 3, you bought a 600 as your first bike.
I agree. V8s are much more dangerous. I've driven many cars, from 130hp I4 FWD cars to 320hp V8 RWD cars, and the diffrence is huge. When cruising around town, you won't notice how different they are, but when you step on the gas going around a corner, you enter two different worlds. the FWD will be more forgiving (understeer) which is why manufctrs make most cars FWD, whereas too much throttle on a RWD, and you're spinning off the road into a ditch. I may not know a lot about motorcycles, but if they're anything like cars (power applications wise), then for beginners, less power is better. Just as 300hp is more likely to put you in the ditch than 130hp in a car, a 600cc bike is much more likely to put you on your "O Ring" than a 250cc, and 250's are capable of that too. My friend had a ninja 250, and he hit a pothole in the road, slipped backwards, accidentally opened up the throttle as he was sliding off the back, and the bike shot out from under him and he went straight to the ground at 30mph. Imagine the much smaller margine of error on a 600. a flick of the wrist can flip you.

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#50 Unread post by Peter Y »

Anything else? You seem to be 0 for 2 so far. Oh, nvm, 0 for 3, you bought a 600 as your first bike.
OK OK firstly I would like to thank you folks for taking the time to comment on my arguments. I must say all the responses where constructive, factual (most of the time) & pointed out some really good points to consider.

I could go on arguing this for decades (I work in Marketing :laughing: ) but im not as I dont think Im going to get too many supporters(not in this forum anyway). There would definitly be different views in a Europe forum).

The point is though. I HAVE THE BIKE. The next best thing that I could ask any one of you is:

WHATS THE BEST WAY TO ASSIMILATE MYSELF TO THIS BIKE NOW THAT I HAVE IT.

Shoudl I just go to an empty paddock and mess around with emergency stops, acceleration etc etc??

Practice can only be achieved on the road so I guess the more I ride this bike the more im going to get comfortable & I guess with all the discussion thats taken place Im fully aware of all potential implications that could occur.

NOW on the lighter side : WHO AM I?

Ive been living in the Netherlands for the last three years and prior to that ive lived in USA,Turkey,Australia. I get to travel frequently because of my career(Marketing, Business Development). Im your average white collar employee who has a passion for his family then his new bike.

SO WHATYA THINK??? HOW DO WE SORT THIS BIKE THING OUT?

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