You are a Beginner and want a 600cc+ sportbike? READ THIS!

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ANDS!
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#111 Unread post by ANDS! »

Id be more worried about these Super-Sports getting jacked - they just scream "Steal me".

EDIT: 180HP - lol. . .sheesh. . .

My philosophy is this, if after taking in all the advice, the stories and anecdotes and practicial knowledge - one still goes down one path over another, then it is on their shoulders to carry the consequences and the rewards of such an action. Some will succeed, others will not. Thats not having attitude, or being sanctimonious (although there might be some of that here - :laughing: ) -

That just life.

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#112 Unread post by Peter Y »

ANDS! wrote:Id be more worried about these Super-Sports getting jacked - they just scream "Steal me".

EDIT: 180HP - lol. . .sheesh. . .

My philosophy is this, if after taking in all the advice, the stories and anecdotes and practicial knowledge - one still goes down one path over another, then it is on their shoulders to carry the consequences and the rewards of such an action. Some will succeed, others will not. Thats not having attitude, or being sanctimonious (although there might be some of that here - :laughing: ) -

That just life.
SPOT ON AGREE TO THE VERY LAST WORD.

This is what I mean about being able to evaluate both sides of the story in a fair and objective manner.

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ANDS!
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#113 Unread post by ANDS! »

Dont get me wrong, I think its silly for someone to jump on something that is far and away regarded as an intermediate machine (these 750 and up), BUT - sometimes ones sheer determination and almost ana attention to detail and safety may well be able to counter that. If someone said they were getting a mean machine (my generic term for one of these power machines), BUT said they were only going to be taking out on wide. . .WIDE open spaces until they became one with the machine - Id imagnie folks would still say "hrmmm. . .you sure you dont want a 250 Ninja?", but the anxiety is alot less than a person who hops on a Ducati 1100 (?) at the dealership after riding pee-wee motorcross for the last year, and proccedes to crash as he "tests" the ride. . .

At the end of the day, were all responsible for the choices we make. So long as someone tells me their choices arent tempered with ego and pride (whether you know it or not) - theres really not a whole lot that can be said at that point. I think the majority of people assume thats why folks are making the decisions they are making; whether thats true or not.

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jackc34
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Ok,

#114 Unread post by jackc34 »

Here's my deal on any bike,

1.Cost,as I am not a rich person I have to consider the price first,
And the bike I posted is only $4000 total,and is about $50 a month.

2.Insurrance,As a 600cc will run about $200 a month or more,and the one i posted will run about $400 a year,which do you think is a better deal for me?

3.size does matter,Yet bigger isn't always better,the 600cc is a bit high off the ground for me,plus the weight is a bit much,and I have ridden dirt bikes,250 and up,so I am more used to that size.

4.Control of my own Ego,Ego says Get the monster crotch rocket,Show the girls what you're packing,But common sense says,Dude chill out,Get the smaller one,Get used to the ride then move up if you want,Plus bikes are like Cars,go out and buy a big "O Ring" Porche,or a viper and ride around town,the ladies will be all over the car,But listen in in secret at their talks and you'll hear one thing,Hey He has a kick "O Ring" car,so he has money,and hey I can take a small package and shallow penatration if it means getting with the money.

5.Use,I am not racing,I am not touring,I am just looking for a bike I like that will work to ride from my home to town,or maybe across the state line to a bigger mall or to a club,So why the hell do I need a $10.000 600cc road rashing,"O Ring" thrashing,Spine busting,Ticket attracting,Neckbreaking mechine?

End of my rant.

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#115 Unread post by jstark47 »

Peter Y wrote:Whats life without attitude? U know theres no need shy away from attitude just because its not for you. Embrace diversity, be open minded to differing views........What I find here is that everything is like a club. You differ and your and outcast. Anyway im persistent and wont shy away. I have a point to prove and will continue my crusade until I prove it.
Peter, without my investing 2 hours plowing through the giant rolling clusterf**k this thread has become, is this a fair statement of your viewpoint, and the "point to prove" you have?

You have a Katana 600, a "gray zone" bike (see TechTMW's June 2005 "Guidelines" post, this forum). You acquired it about 5-6 weeks ago. Your point is: people on TMW should not make blanket recommendations against 600cc sportbikes for beginners without considering the beneficial effect of 1) extensive European training programs and 2) the reduced horsepower of the Katana in comparison to a race replica (e.g. GSX-R600) bike ? Your supporting evidence for this point is that you've done fine riding your Katana for the last 5-6 weeks. Fairly stated?

I have two points in reaction:
  • 1. OK, some people on TMW have been doctrinaire about the "no 600cc sportbike for newbs" rule. Passions and egos get involved, and we lose sight of the real issue: risk management and knowing where the odds lie. There are probably many instances of the extreme case: people beginning their riding career on race replica litre bikes, or Hayabusas, without tragedy. It happens. Nonetheless, the odds are less favorable than for starting on a smaller, lower powered bike. The recommendations in the stickies are for the way to learn with the best odds for success, not the only way.
    2. Extensive European training or not, 5-6 weeks of new rider experience does not cover all the potential conditions where the difference between a 600cc sportbike and a less specialized machine may signify the difference between merely being frightened versus getting hurt. Perhaps you are drawing conclusions based on insufficient data?
Regards, Jonathan
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DivideOverflow
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#116 Unread post by DivideOverflow »

Lets just stop feeding the troll and ignore him. He just says the same thing over and over.
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#117 Unread post by Peter Y »

DivideOverflow wrote:Lets just stop feeding the troll and ignore him. He just says the same thing over and over.
Oh theres some real worldy advice from the 23 year old dinasour. Venture out of your cave and look around before you call me a troll.

What give you the right to suggest to others of how they should interact with me? No need to openly display your imbecilic behaviour.
Last edited by Peter Y on Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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#118 Unread post by Peter Y »

jstark47 wrote:
Peter Y wrote:Whats life without attitude? U know theres no need shy away from attitude just because its not for you. Embrace diversity, be open minded to differing views........What I find here is that everything is like a club. You differ and your and outcast. Anyway im persistent and wont shy away. I have a point to prove and will continue my crusade until I prove it.
Peter, without my investing 2 hours plowing through the giant rolling clusterf**k this thread has become, is this a fair statement of your viewpoint, and the "point to prove" you have?

You have a Katana 600, a "gray zone" bike (see TechTMW's June 2005 "Guidelines" post, this forum). You acquired it about 5-6 weeks ago. Your point is: people on TMW should not make blanket recommendations against 600cc sportbikes for beginners without considering the beneficial effect of 1) extensive European training programs and 2) the reduced horsepower of the Katana in comparison to a race replica (e.g. GSX-R600) bike ? Your supporting evidence for this point is that you've done fine riding your Katana for the last 5-6 weeks. Fairly stated?

I have two points in reaction:
  • 1. OK, some people on TMW have been doctrinaire about the "no 600cc sportbike for newbs" rule. Passions and egos get involved, and we lose sight of the real issue: risk management and knowing where the odds lie. There are probably many instances of the extreme case: people beginning their riding career on race replica litre bikes, or Hayabusas, without tragedy. It happens. Nonetheless, the odds are less favorable than for starting on a smaller, lower powered bike. The recommendations in the stickies are for the way to learn with the best odds for success, not the only way.
    2. Extensive European training or not, 5-6 weeks of new rider experience does not cover all the potential conditions where the difference between a 600cc sportbike and a less specialized machine may signify the difference between merely being frightened versus getting hurt. Perhaps you are drawing conclusions based on insufficient data?
Regards, Jonathan
Fair comments....Done deal..................

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Koss
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#119 Unread post by Koss »

Jstark hit it on the head, and that encompasses most peoples viewers on the 600+cc supersport topic.

Btw, as what Sev stated earlier... you still havn't ridden on a 600+cc supersport bike... your bike may seem sporty, but its not in the same class as todays bikes. Sure, its engine is based on the ALOT older generation GSXR 600 engine... from the '80's, but that dosn't make it a supersport bike. The rest of the bike isn't taken from that same gsxr, and don't think I'm dissing your Katana... because i'm not, I actually am ok with katanas. I wanted to buy one at first too.

Here is my opinion, and yes, I can see what you are saying. After hearing you out, would I still say the 600cc katana is newbie friendly? nope. First, horsepower.... its a "grey" area bike. Just like the 650r ninja or the sv650s is.
Second... and this is what makes me say no for newbies, is its top heavy weight... the way it carries it... and how newbie UN-friendly that is.

Is it a cool bike? Sure. Is it a newbie friendly bike? no. Can a newbie learn on a 600 katana? Yes. Can a newbie learn how to ride on a zx-14? Probably. Is it the safest choice? no. Can a rider learn proper technique faster on a less powerful and heavy bike? Yes. Are you at more risk than if you were to get a ninja 500r for example? Yes, most likely. Will you crash? Almost every rider crashes no matter what... but there are exceptions.
Does that mean that it dosn't matter what you ride when you begin? No, it DOES matter.

Ok, this is a long post... one more point I wanna make.
Arguing that the whole logic behind us saying 600cc+ supersports are bad for newbies just because you think the 600cc katana is newbie friendly... its, not a very accurate thing to argue. No matter how much you say the 600cc katana is in the same class as the other 600cc SUPERsports... its not. No one ever said the 600cc katana is a SUPERsport bike. And it is even said time and time again ALL over this forum and stickies that there are "GREY" area bikes... bikes inbetween the two levels. Since the katana is not a 600cc SUPERsport, then it is safe to assume, that all SUPERsport bikes are not the safest option for a beginner. No matter if you think the katana is or not. Just because the stupid engine size is the same, it does not place it in the same catagory. Thats the same thinking as say... the 650cc displacement in the ninja 650r and sv650 motorcycles must be more horspower than the 600cc supersports... we all know thats not correct.

We also say that engine size isn't a good indicator of how powerful or userfriendly a motorcycle can be. Its the hard facts, the horspower and torque numbers, the weight, and how it carries that weight... which will determine that.

Ok, i'm off my soapbox now... sorry for the long post to anyone who is even crazy enough to read this.
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#120 Unread post by Koss »

I forgot to add... time and time again you say how our cultures are different... and we shouldn't be able to make a proper accessment of newbies in all of europe than in all of north america. (btw this is a canadian forum, and alot of people you've talked to here in this thread are from the great white north. So thats why I say north america)

The truth is, most countries in the world have a tiered motorcycle licensing system. You can't start off on a 600cc, much less a 1000cc motorcycle like you can in the states.

You start off on usually something below a 250cc, or below a horsepower number, 33bhp for example... depending on the country and their laws, it can be smaller or different than my generalization. Even after their motorcycle training program. You can move up after a certain period of time.

So are you saying they are as closed minded as us Americans? hrm? Because we can't possibly understand all of "europe"... although there are european countries that have this tiered licensing system?

Just some food for thought.
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