People suck sometimes!

[Shorts]

According to her, he didnt grab her - he put his hand on her shoulder. "Appropriate response" is the key phrase here. She gave the person the correct response. Macing them, or worse PHYSICALLY assaulting them - would not have been.

With dealing with ex-offenders and public defenders day in and day out, I think I can call an "assault/harrassment" when I see one. This wasnt harrassment, it was some fool playing smooth. If some of the facts have been left out (smelled alcohol on his breath, he had a weapon on his hip, etc.) - then you change your response accordingly; but going from 0 to 60 off of that, is going to get MULTIPLE people in trouble. Period. Self-defense Im sure teaches how to gauge situations, no?

Sure does. Have you read my prior post? If not, refer to it.

[shalihe74]

ANDS!, honestly... cut and run from the argument now.

You are (I assume) a man effectively chastising a woman for wanting to defend herself and her space. There really is no way you can avoid looking like a completely misogynistic "O Ring" if you continue to intimate that a woman who felt threatened by anyone, much less a stranger who is large and male, is not justified in defending - or wanting - to defend herself.

As it is, the more I read of your posts, the more it is making me think that you condone the behavior being discussed.

Believe it or not, we women are pretty darn smart and can generally tell if someone is being inappropriately over-friendly or if they are being aggressive. We are not going to go around indiscriminately pepper spraying people.

If NightNurse says that it was a situation that would have called for a little bit of mace, it undoubtedly was. We're not stupid.

Besides, let's look at worst-case scenarios from both sides. Worst-case for the guy: he really is socially awkward, doesn't know that he's stepped over a line and gets a some burning, itching eyes and a wounded ego. Worst-case for the woman: well, people are capable of a lot of terribly heinous acts; pick one.

[flynrider]

With dealing with ex-offenders and public defenders day in and day out, I think I can call an "assault/harrassment" when I see one.

I'm not sure what you do for a living, but grabbing someone you don't know by the shoulder, in a parking lot, constitutes assault in any jurisdiction I can think of.

This notion you have that you can put your hands on a random person, and it's OK as long as you remove them when asked, is pretty silly.

[ANDS!]

I guess you can't read. " Looks at me, puts his hand on my bike, grabs my shoulder and says "Hey, can I get on your bike". " Taken from my first post...

Ok great. He grabbed your shoulder. Did he squeeze it? Was it painful? Did he GRAB or did he cup his hand? You may think these are asinine questions, and that automatically folks should just say "Omg - GIT HIM!" - but they arent, they make all the difference between "assault" and "not-assault".

You are (I assume) a man effectively chastising a woman for wanting to defend herself and her space. There really is no way you can avoid looking like a completely misogynistic "O Ring" if you continue to intimate that a woman who felt threatened by anyone, much less a stranger who is large and male, is not justified in defending - or wanting - to defend herself

Show me where I even INTIMATED having that opinion. There isnt a SINGLE person here who has said that - however feeling that because you are a female, the other person is a male, and you "feel" threatened is a lisence to pursue ANY action against the other person is so far and away LUDICROUS that I'm suprised anyone is even defending it. You DONT have a right to use any response you deem neccessary in ANY situation you personally feel warrants it. YOu certainly can, butbe an adult and accept responsibility for the consequences. Sorry that I'm not falling all over myself to join the lynch mob over this guy - but you characterizing it as some chauvanism triggered response is nonsense.

We're not stupid.

No just omniscent appearantly.

This notion you have that you can put your hands on a random person, and it's OK as long as you remove them when asked, is pretty silly.

Anymore silly thank assuming that putting your hands on another person constitutes an assault. Because it doesn't. Assault implies the existence of danger not only on the "victim", but on the individual causing it. Now had she followed through and smashed his nadz in, or worse (for her) had her BF harm the guy - then yes, you'd have a case for assault, but not from who youre thinking. Go into court and say "He grabbed my shoulder" and see what kinds of questions the other guys lawyer tosses at you.

[Flipper]

The goal is getting some jerk to back off.
You may not have to go right to red alert status.

Picking your nose or spitting are great turn offs and work pretty well on the nonaggressive type.

Flipper

[Shorts]

The goal is getting some jerk to back off.
You may not have to go right to red alert status.

Picking your nose or spitting are great turn offs and work pretty well on the nonaggressive type.

Flipper

We can all Monday Morning Quarterback it all we want. And that includes the lawyers in court too.

As for this incident, nothing came of it, which is fortunate it didn't go south. We can only speculate what we would have done, what we would have said, what the judge and lawyers would do, etc etc. What matters is what happens and the outcome in the situation at that time.

This serves as a reminder to us to be aware of our surroundings and that wierd things happen at random times. So be ready. Ladies don't have the luxury of being caught offguard, though sometimes we are and we're at the mercy of the gods (or non gods, or stars and monkeys and luck).

Best thing is to stay safe out there.

[scan]

Much of this is matter of opinion. Let's reel this in folks. I get it, some of us would feel justified hammering someone for taking this action, some of us want to use chemicals in response, some of us want to have a nice chat with the fella, and somewhere in there is a possibly a vote for the guy making a nice move on a woman.

There is no doubt there are a lawyers in this world that could sue someone for responding to this moron in a negative way. You take your chances doing the right thing in this world. He shouldn't have put a paw on NightNurse, and anyone who wants to argue that, is someone I'd be concerned to hang around. I think everyone knows that hitting the guy might have resulted in more problem, but I think there has been a point that has tried to be made here - it is not OK to invade someone space, and especially touch someone on a running bike.

So I respectfully ask everyone to cool it down a bit. None of the hotter heads are going to convince the other hotter heads. I will respectfully stay one step away from locking this thread.

[Nalian]

If you weren't hangin' out in the girls room you wouldn't have seen it twice.

Wow....you should take material like that on the road!

Thanks! I'll let you know when I'm in your area.

ANDS! - if you want to get technical you are correct in that him touching her wasn't assault - touching someone without permission is assault and battery. The legal definition is "Any unlawful touching of another which is without justification or excuse." Just assault is committed is no physical contact, but once contact is made it's assault and battery. Would a real court case be made if only what occurred in this post was reported to the police? No, they might try and locate him and talk to him, but they likely wouldn't arrest him. However if he grabbed her, she maced him and the cops were called - it's pretty unlikely she'd be the one in trouble.

This does mean if you get in a screaming match with someone and lay a hand on them and cops are called, you can be charged with assault and battery. It doesn't matter if you're just poking them with your pinky. Again, if you're poking them with your pinky it likely won't go past the charge..but if you want to talk technicalities there you have it.

I understand what you're trying to get at as far as levels of escalation, but in the end you don't get to decide what is or isn't ok for how someone reacts to being touched. And in this case, legally, you're definitely wrong.

[flynrider]

Ok great. He grabbed your shoulder. Did he squeeze it? Was it painful? Did he GRAB or did he cup his hand? You may think these are asinine questions, and that automatically folks should just say "Omg - GIT HIM!" - but they arent, they make all the difference between "assault" and "not-assault".

No. They are assinine questions. I suggest you check with a local law enforcement officer. You do not have to squeeze or cause pain for it to be an assault. This "one free touch" concept that you have is silly.

Plain and simple. You cannot walk up to someone and put your hands on them. That is considered an assault just about anywhere in the U.S.

[Jadien]

hahahahahahaha......hahahahahahahahahah........haha...ha..... ha

Almost poetic, considering where this post has gone.

NN- I'm sorry you felt threatened. I'm sure you are justified in your fears and post, AS YOU WERE THE ONLY ONE THERE!!! (everyone else please shut up...)

Ladies of the World- Please don't mace guys who come on to you. Tell them, very loudly, you are not interested, and their buddies should handle them appropriately. Macing (sp?) them would only make them angry and then they'll possibly harm you for real. The extremely public shooting down of advances would most likely make the guy leave the place with their tail between their legs. (Of course, there are sickos out there; just stay in a safely lit and populated area, and you should be OK.)