Some suggestions for new bikes

[NNYrider]

Hiya Guys and Gals.

I'm new here. But I've been looking at the posts, and there are a whole lot of 'em regarding first bikes. I'm also quite impressed with the reasonable, rational responses I've seen. Reasonable and rational are usually two words one does not apply to most internet forums!

I'll chip in. To be honest there are a WHOLE lot of better riders out there than I am. However, my favorite thing to do is help introduce novice riders to the sport. For what its worth I'm an MSF Rider Coach, and I've put some 600+ people through the basic rider course. I'm on the range teaching riders virtually every weekend May to September.

I've seen a lot of novices on a whole lot of different bikes. I've come to realize that there are a few really important factors in choosing a 'right bike'.

Comfort: Don't buy a bike for "tomorrow". Buy a bike for today. Buy the bike that fits your body and comfort level RIGHT NOW, not the bike you want to grow into. If you are comfortable and confident you learn MUCH faster. Bikes are a mental sport.

Fit: You really need to be able to get both feet on the ground without difficulty. This can be a challenge for some "vertically challenged" riders. Seat height is only half the equation. Bike WIDTH counts too. A really short but FAT bike isn't much help. Short AND narrow means you get to use all your legs getting to the ground instead of straddling a fat tank.

Center of gravity: Some bikes have low centers of gravity. These bikes seem stable, are comfortable, and do not feel "heavy". Others have high centers of gravity, and tend to want to pitch over faster. Cruisers typically are low. Sport bikes are high. Lower is typically better for novices.

Handle bars: These matter, and its not just cosmetics. One of the skills novices need to acquire is a confidence with countersteering. Some handlebar designs seem to make this easy, others hinder. Relatively flat bars are great. You'll find em on GZ250s, Rebels, S40's. Older Buckhorn style curvy bars have a unique style but are harder to acquire the confidence with countersteer (Viragos).

The name of this game IS confidence. If you feel comfortable, you'll relax, learn, and enjoy the ride. If you are uncomfortable, you stop learning. Remember this when you buy your bike. The dealer makes more money on a big bike than on a small bike. The usual arguement goes like this " Don't buy a small bike. You'll outgrow it in a year, trade it in and loose on the deal. Better to buy this BIG bike now and save money".

It's bullcrap. The real choice is this:

1) Buy small bike. Ride for a year or two, trade in and buy a bigger bike. You loose $1000 or so on the deal.

2) Buy the big bike. Try to ride when you are uncomfortable. Ride scared and tight and wreck the bike. Which is cheaper???

If you shop around you can usually find a 4-5 year old Rebel or GZ250 with 4000 miles for $1600. Ride it for a year and then sell it for $1400-1500. You can frequently ride for next to nothing, then buy a bigger bike...

It usually pays to remember something else too. 30 years ago anything over 500 cc was considered a BIG bike. People cruised coast to coast on 400 cc and smaller bikes. We now call anything in the 750-800 cc range a "middlewieght', and there are a lot of people who think they have to have at least 1000ccs before its a 'real bike'... Its bull. 98% of riders on the road really cannot get the full performance out of a 600cc let alone a 1000. A lot of teh people pushing 1000's and 1200's spend more time riding bar stools than bikes, and most of 'em don't ride well at all. Don't be pushed into a big bike...

Some additional observations:

Sport bikes. These do EVERYTHING better than cruisers. The go faster, turn quicker, brake harder. They also require much more from the rider. They are less forgiving. Make a mistake on a sportbike and they are faster to 'bite you'. There is absolutely postively no need for any sportbike over 600 ccs for any newbie. I'll be honest here: These bikes are a lot of fun but they simplier are harder to drive for 95% of novices. For many people its easier to learn on a standard/cruiser, acquire clutch/shifting/braking/throttle/countersteer skills first, THEN move to a sportie and start dealing with the additional challenges. High seats (31-32") rule em out for some of our more vertically challenged individuals.

Standards: Not a lot of these out there anymore. They are, however, darned near ideal for learning. The upright posture (rather than cruiser relaxed or sportie tank-humper) seems to really make it all easy. Suzuki GS500, SV650, Honda Nighthawk are good examples. If you are a big fella most find the standards more comfortable than similar engine sized cruisers. Seat hieghts are frequently 30+". Many dual sports (Suzuki DR200's Yamaha Wr's) ride the same way: Feet under butt, back upright. The upright posture with feet underneath (instead of out front a la some cruisers) seems a tad more "confident" for some novices.

Cruisers: Probably the most common bike type today. The sure do look good. There are the obvious choices (the 250 cruisers like the GZ250, rebel, and virago) as well as a few other somewhat larger bikes. The typical 250 cruiser makes a GREAT around town commuter. They are easy to handle and buzz along at anything under 45 MPH all day long. Some riders will find that these little cruiser will start to feel a bit strained at 55 MPH +, and if hills are involved there will be abundant down shifting and pegged throttles.


There are a couple of true middle-weights (Honda VLX600, Suzuki s40/m50/s50 and Kawasaki Vulcan 500) that offer more power than the 250's but relatively little extra wieght. For example the GZ250 (probably the most common bikes used on MSF rider courses) weighs some 302 lbs or thereabouts. The suzuki s40 weighs but 40 lbs more, and it actually seems shorter and lighter (because its narrower). They'll easily do highway speeds all day without stressing. The VLX 600 Shadow does seem to want another gear though (its a four speed). These might just be the ideal novice cruisers:

Hope this helps!!!!!!!!!!!

NNYrider

[RhadamYgg]

Cool post. I know that in person, with one of my co-workers - it is very hard to convince someone not to get a 600cc supersport as their first bike.

I've failed once - hands down. He's got buddies that had him on a bike a few times and told him he did great.

So, now he's got his bike, he's got a permit and no license and I'm trying to convince him to take the MSF course.

Hopefully, he does well with it and nothing bad happens to him. Since I'm the first motorcyclist in my work place and I'm relatively high up in company people might attributes what happens to him to my bringing motorcycles in to the work environment.

Bleh.

RhadamYgg

[RhadamYgg]

Of course, I may not be as smart and up on a high horse as one would imagine with my choice of a second bike. Time and luck will tell.

RhadamYgg

[Lion_Lady]

Dude. Welcome. Everything you posted is already here. Why don't you read some of the sticky threads?

P

[shane-o]

Hiya Guys and Gals.

I'm new here. But I've been looking at the posts, and there are a whole lot of 'em regarding first bikes. I'm also quite impressed with the reasonable, rational responses I've seen. Reasonable and rational are usually two words one does not apply to most internet forums!

I'll chip in. To be honest there are a WHOLE lot of better riders out there than I am. However, my favorite thing to do is help introduce novice riders to the sport. For what its worth I'm an MSF Rider Coach, and I've put some 600+ people through the basic rider course. I'm on the range teaching riders virtually every weekend May to September.

I've seen a lot of novices on a whole lot of different bikes. I've come to realize that there are a few really important factors in choosing a 'right bike'.

Comfort: Don't buy a bike for "tomorrow". Buy a bike for today. Buy the bike that fits your body and comfort level RIGHT NOW, not the bike you want to grow into. If you are comfortable and confident you learn MUCH faster. Bikes are a mental sport.

Fit: You really need to be able to get both feet on the ground without difficulty. This can be a challenge for some "vertically challenged" riders. Seat height is only half the equation. Bike WIDTH counts too. A really short but FAT bike isn't much help. Short AND narrow means you get to use all your legs getting to the ground instead of straddling a fat tank.

Center of gravity: Some bikes have low centers of gravity. These bikes seem stable, are comfortable, and do not feel "heavy". Others have high centers of gravity, and tend to want to pitch over faster. Cruisers typically are low. Sport bikes are high. Lower is typically better for novices.

Handle bars: These matter, and its not just cosmetics. One of the skills novices need to acquire is a confidence with countersteering. Some handlebar designs seem to make this easy, others hinder. Relatively flat bars are great. You'll find em on GZ250s, Rebels, S40's. Older Buckhorn style curvy bars have a unique style but are harder to acquire the confidence with countersteer (Viragos).

The name of this game IS confidence. If you feel comfortable, you'll relax, learn, and enjoy the ride. If you are uncomfortable, you stop learning. Remember this when you buy your bike. The dealer makes more money on a big bike than on a small bike. The usual arguement goes like this " Don't buy a small bike. You'll outgrow it in a year, trade it in and loose on the deal. Better to buy this BIG bike now and save money".

It's bullcrap. The real choice is this:

1) Buy small bike. Ride for a year or two, trade in and buy a bigger bike. You loose $1000 or so on the deal.

2) Buy the big bike. Try to ride when you are uncomfortable. Ride scared and tight and wreck the bike. Which is cheaper???

If you shop around you can usually find a 4-5 year old Rebel or GZ250 with 4000 miles for $1600. Ride it for a year and then sell it for $1400-1500. You can frequently ride for next to nothing, then buy a bigger bike...

It usually pays to remember something else too. 30 years ago anything over 500 cc was considered a BIG bike. People cruised coast to coast on 400 cc and smaller bikes. We now call anything in the 750-800 cc range a "middlewieght', and there are a lot of people who think they have to have at least 1000ccs before its a 'real bike'... Its bull. 98% of riders on the road really cannot get the full performance out of a 600cc let alone a 1000. A lot of teh people pushing 1000's and 1200's spend more time riding bar stools than bikes, and most of 'em don't ride well at all. Don't be pushed into a big bike...

Some additional observations:

Sport bikes. These do EVERYTHING better than cruisers. The go faster, turn quicker, brake harder. They also require much more from the rider. They are less forgiving. Make a mistake on a sportbike and they are faster to 'bite you'. There is absolutely postively no need for any sportbike over 600 ccs for any newbie. I'll be honest here: These bikes are a lot of fun but they simplier are harder to drive for 95% of novices. For many people its easier to learn on a standard/cruiser, acquire clutch/shifting/braking/throttle/countersteer skills first, THEN move to a sportie and start dealing with the additional challenges. High seats (31-32") rule em out for some of our more vertically challenged individuals.

Standards: Not a lot of these out there anymore. They are, however, darned near ideal for learning. The upright posture (rather than cruiser relaxed or sportie tank-humper) seems to really make it all easy. Suzuki GS500, SV650, Honda Nighthawk are good examples. If you are a big fella most find the standards more comfortable than similar engine sized cruisers. Seat hieghts are frequently 30+". Many dual sports (Suzuki DR200's Yamaha Wr's) ride the same way: Feet under butt, back upright. The upright posture with feet underneath (instead of out front a la some cruisers) seems a tad more "confident" for some novices.

Cruisers: Probably the most common bike type today. The sure do look good. There are the obvious choices (the 250 cruisers like the GZ250, rebel, and virago) as well as a few other somewhat larger bikes. The typical 250 cruiser makes a GREAT around town commuter. They are easy to handle and buzz along at anything under 45 MPH all day long. Some riders will find that these little cruiser will start to feel a bit strained at 55 MPH +, and if hills are involved there will be abundant down shifting and pegged throttles.


There are a couple of true middle-weights (Honda VLX600, Suzuki s40/m50/s50 and Kawasaki Vulcan 500) that offer more power than the 250's but relatively little extra wieght. For example the GZ250 (probably the most common bikes used on MSF rider courses) weighs some 302 lbs or thereabouts. The suzuki s40 weighs but 40 lbs more, and it actually seems shorter and lighter (because its narrower). They'll easily do highway speeds all day without stressing. The VLX 600 Shadow does seem to want another gear though (its a four speed). These might just be the ideal novice cruisers:

Hope this helps!!!!!!!!!!!

NNYrider

A refreshing change to the usual new posts.

Agree with nearly all of it



As pointed out, 99% of it is already on here

BUT


It was good to read it again


Thank you.




.

[luis_alberto]

I did really like the post. I do have to agree that almost everything is already in here, but this one was a very good explanation of all that. It was like an information pill.

In my personal experience, I first had a Yamaha Vino 125cc scooter. Since I wanted it for commutting it was perfect for the city. I did the mistake of taking the MSF Basic rider course after buying the scooter, I could had killed myself because I knew nothing about the basics. For working reasons I know live in Latin America (Honduras). I sold my scooter in the U.S. and with the money I got a UM 200cc cruiser. I wanted a bigger bike, because I daily travel the Panamerican Highway, but I didn´t need it. The highways in here are not like in the U.S. (long and straight), there is a lot of curves that make cruising even more fun. I have just the right size for what I wanted my bike for. Of course I do have to downshift on the hills, but with a 600cc I just wouldn´t had used it at its full potential. I guess the perfect mortorcyle engine size must be 400cc... but it´s hard to find them.

Luis.

[MZ33]

You have my whole-hearted respect for riding/driving in Honduras. Is this city driving, or rural?

Be careful!!

[luis_alberto]

You have my whole-hearted respect for riding/driving in Honduras. Is this city driving, or rural?

Be careful!!

Let me tell you... you have to be careful as in any other place, but actually is not that bad. I´m guessing that the motorcycle accident stats may be high. But here there´s a lot more bikes per person and also they´re more aggresive than recreational drivers (remember here it´s mostly for commuting).

[MZ33]

you have to be careful as in any other place, but actually is not that bad

Nooooo, I tend to disagree! I've been in Tegucigalpa and, worse, La Ceiba during high traffic. It was like being in a river of motorized vehicles. I have no idea how we got through intersections and the like, and at no time were we more than 12 inches from another vehicle.

The fact that my Honduran friend was shot over a traffic accident is another matter. Granted, it has been about six years since then, but still!

I'm glad you can take it in stride! Like I said, my heartfelt respect . . .

[TexasPhotographer]

you have to be careful as in any other place, but actually is not that bad

Nooooo, I tend to disagree! I've been in Tegucigalpa and, worse, La Ceiba during high traffic. It was like being in a river of motorized vehicles. I have no idea how we got through intersections and the like, and at no time were we more than 12 inches from another vehicle.

I'm glad you can take it in stride! Like I said, my heartfelt respect . . .

I drove all over Central America and South America for four years. Spent a lot of time in Teguc and San Pedro Sula. Sure, the traffic is crazy, but no worse than Austin or Houston, Texas. I even drove with my son from Panama to Texas on the Pan American Highway. That was in 1974. Doubt if I would do that today by myself only because of the nature of the people, not the traffic. Even drove in Saigon during rush hour. Crazy yes, impossible, no.

Would love to go on a three - four rider ride to Guatemala and El Salvador. Have a lot of friends there.