First errr two drops

Message

TEvo · #31 Unread post by **TEvo** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:39 pm

If you have completed braking prior to corner entry/turn-in, it's not trail braking.

It's the MSF Slow-Look-Press-Roll cornering process, whereby slowing is done before you turn-in (and using both brakes, as de facto good habit). In practice, it's a seamless process as you execute this process but slowing and turn-in are discrete "steps" and separate from one another.
This is considered by most safety experts as the preferred way of speed adjustment prior to putting the motorcycle in a cornering attitude.

This said, I believe being able to use your brakes without exceeding traction when you are at lean, in a corner... is a useful tool in the bag. Whether you call it trail braking or something else is going to be immaterial when that surprise downhill decreasing radius turn sneaks up on you and you have to shed more speed than you anticipated but no longer have the time and space to keep braking and turning separate.

As for front brake vs. rear brake... either way, care must be used so one doesn't exceed the delicate balance of traction as much of it may already be consumed by cornering. Consider though, which brake offers more potency and the implications of weight transfer during deceleration/braking and that may help sway you as to which one to favor more.

RhadamYgg · Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:27 pm

jstark47 wrote:
Penguin wrote:
PacificShot327 wrote:Sorry to hear about the drops. No fun! I dropped mine, too, but at least the thing is already beat up enough to where you can't distinguish new scratches from old...

And not trying to start up an argument or anything, but what wrecks describes, IS, according to my MSF instructor (who I still keep in touch with), trail-braking. This was the only way I managed to get through the figure 8s for the test. For whatever reason, I couldn't really manage to get those down without trail-braking. He used that term specifically and encouraged me to do it since I was having a bit of trouble.
Possibly you have different definitions over the other side of the atlantic...anyway we all know what we're talking about so there's no confusion

In the case of figure 8s the yes it is trail braking because you are braking into the corner...anyway it doesn't really matter
Trail braking is done with either both brakes or the front brake alone. Trailing the brakes deep into corner entry allows a smoother transition into corner entry speed, and compresses the front suspension, facilitating lean.

The slow-speed technique we're discussing here is done exclusively with the rear brake. Used with clutch feathering, it is a way to increase engine speed and gyroscopic effect without increasing bike speed, and also helps mitigate any abrupt throttle inputs. You can call it whatever you want, but IMO calling it trail braking adds confusion, not clarity.

Well, being I don't know what the hell I'm talking about (and can't keep my bike off the ground) I'll accept your definitions. And probably admit that there may be some things I'll need to learn through experience.

Hopefully, without horizontal parking the bike again!

RhadamYgg
RhadamYgg

Nalian · #33 Unread post by **Nalian** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:28 am

Welcome to the club! Sorry it happened - glad you're not hurt.

Brackstone · Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:01 am

RhadamYgg wrote:
Well, being I don't know what the hell I'm talking about (and can't keep my bike off the ground) I'll accept your definitions. And probably admit that there may be some things I'll need to learn through experience.

Hopefully, without horizontal parking the bike again!

RhadamYgg

Once you try using the rear brake with feathering your throttle at low speeds you'll be hooked. Don't worry about the definition just the next time you find yourself doing a slow tight turn and feathering your throttle try mixing in your rear brake a bit and you'll do fine. It's just like being a DJ get the proper mix down and you'll be super cool!

RhadamYgg · Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:45 pm

Nalian wrote:Welcome to the club! Sorry it happened - glad you're not hurt.

Huh, yeah - maybe now I'm a real motorcyclist.

RhadamYgg · Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:47 pm

Brackstone wrote:
RhadamYgg wrote:
Well, being I don't know what the hell I'm talking about (and can't keep my bike off the ground) I'll accept your definitions. And probably admit that there may be some things I'll need to learn through experience.

Hopefully, without horizontal parking the bike again!

RhadamYgg
Once you try using the rear brake with feathering your throttle at low speeds you'll be hooked. Don't worry about the definition just the next time you find yourself doing a slow tight turn and feathering your throttle try mixing in your rear brake a bit and you'll do fine. It's just like being a DJ get the proper mix down and you'll be super cool!

I'll give it a shot! Looks like next time I'll be riding is some time from now, though.

RhadamYgg