Here we go again...

[Johnj]

However, trying to explain my Honda ST sure is interesting. Rolling Eyes

When people ask just say "Lets ride to Seattle, right now"

[Ryethil]

However, trying to explain my Honda ST sure is interesting. Rolling Eyes

When people ask just say "Lets ride to Seattle, right now.

I've ridden a Street Glide to Califoria and found it to be fun. But the miles just melt under the ST. No, if they don't understand, I can't tell them.

Anyway, I love my Harleys but I don't think that HD could design something like the ST. Anyone have an opinion.?

[koji52]

However, trying to explain my Honda ST sure is interesting. Rolling Eyes

When people ask just say "Lets ride to Seattle, right now.

I've ridden a Street Glide to Califoria and found it to be fun. But the miles just melt under the ST. No, if they don't understand, I can't tell them.

Anyway, I love my Harleys but I don't think that HD could design something like the ST. Anyone have an opinion.?

It may not be that Harley cannot design something like the ST (I've never ridden one but based on your posts about the bike, it sounds like a smooth powerful machine), it's just that HD just won't. I don't know if you spend any time on the harley forums, but the VRSC line gets virtually no love from the traditional HD riders on that forum. Alot of older riders I know who are hardcore HD guys can't stand the Vrod and think that the MoCo made a huge mistake by designing and marketing the line. Why? You got me over a barrel...I have no idea.

I can't even imagine the piles of poo-poo there'd be from those guys if HD released something like the ST.

[jstark47]

However, trying to explain my Honda ST sure is interesting. Rolling Eyes

When people ask just say "Lets ride to Seattle, right now.

I've ridden a Street Glide to Califoria and found it to be fun. But the miles just melt under the ST. No, if they don't understand, I can't tell them.

Anyway, I love my Harleys but I don't think that HD could design something like the ST. Anyone have an opinion.?

It may not be that Harley cannot design something like the ST (I've never ridden one but based on your posts about the bike, it sounds like a smooth powerful machine), it's just that HD just won't.

Agreed. No reason for Harley to do it. The sport-tourer market in North America is small, tiny compared to cruisers, sport bikes, even dual-sports. Ducati got out of it, Aprilia got out of it (no more ST3's or Futura's). Honda, Yamaha, Kawi, BMW and Triumph fight over the crumbs. No need for another player in that market.

[Grey Thumper]

Agreed. No reason for Harley to do it. The sport-tourer market in North America is small, tiny compared to cruisers, sport bikes, even dual-sports. Ducati got out of it, Aprilia got out of it (no more ST3's or Futura's). Honda, Yamaha, Kawi, BMW and Triumph fight over the crumbs. No need for another player in that market.

As an aside, I really liked the Ducati STs and Aprilia Futura. They'll added a lot of style to the sport tourer market. They'll be missed, but that's what poor sales does.

[Ryethil]

However, trying to explain my Honda ST sure is interesting. Rolling Eyes

When people ask just say "Lets ride to Seattle, right now.

I've ridden a Street Glide to Califoria and found it to be fun. But the miles just melt under the ST. No, if they don't understand, I can't tell them.

Anyway, I love my Harleys but I don't think that HD could design something like the ST. Anyone have an opinion.?

It may not be that Harley cannot design something like the ST (I've never ridden one but based on your posts about the bike, it sounds like a smooth powerful machine), it's just that HD just won't.

Agreed. No reason for Harley to do it. The sport-tourer market in North America is small, tiny compared to cruisers, sport bikes, even dual-sports. Ducati got out of it, Aprilia got out of it (no more ST3's or Futura's). Honda, Yamaha, Kawi, BMW and Triumph fight over the crumbs. No need for another player in that market.

Harley is in a serious bind and it knows it. That is why they hired the new head honcho. Harley sales are dropping. How much of this is poor economic conditions or is Harley's core group is changing is unknown at this time. Secondly, aircooled motors are not condusive to meeting emission standards. As for the second, Harley will be forced to create more and more water pumpers to meet emmisions standards. Can it do this without turning off it's base group. That is why I use the VTX1300 as the model of what the future holds for us. Again, can Harley satisfy people who want a real Harley. So far, the base group down grades not only Sporsters but the V Rods too. And the V Rods are the face of the future.

The other thing is that the Davidson model of business is choking the finacial potential of HD. Willie had always depended on their owners to also invest in the company to keep the company afloat. Now Harley opened it's coffers to other types of investment. The large number of layoffs while the company is making good sums of profits is indicative of the neo-con business model. Are we going to go through another AMF debacle? What has been discussed in the short run is the creation of new models of motorcycles that don't support the mainstream Harley biker that has kept the business afloat for all these years. On another front their core group is aging and Harley is nervous that when they go to the old folks home, there will be "no" new or younger buyers for HD products. This is one of the major thrusts of getting women to become riders and buy HD products. That is why they have made the XL883 so attractive to women.

And in the face of all this cr*p, can Harley re-design itself to make its products more interesting to the more mainstream buyers or do the Japanese or Chinese makers have this all sown up. Ducati is facing something similar but they are a niche market that knows its place and is willing to accept that. At least so far. Remember the Brit bike boom quickly became a total bust when the Japanese imported bikes that just worked. They didn't have any visceral appeal but they were relaibly and didn't leak oil. And their dealerships weren't fearful places of bikers and outlaws. Remember the slogan, "you meet the nices people on a Honda). It worked to make Honda a household name and its riders actually acceptable people to the majority of the population.

One other thing is that there are many marques that are building heavily stylised bikes that was the upper end of Harleys owners group. Even Honda is building the Fury. Harley answer is that they don't need those customers. Just wondering.

So again I will ask can Harley design bikes that make the company more viable or will it die like the Brit Bikes did.

Right now I think that things will get worse then better so I'm investing in new motorcycles. Even if things don't throw the company into confusion then there will be great changes to the way Harley is designing and marketing its products. So in the end I can enjoy them while I got them but they also will appreciate in value. We'll just have to wieght and see.

[koji52]

However, trying to explain my Honda ST sure is interesting. Rolling Eyes

When people ask just say "Lets ride to Seattle, right now.

I've ridden a Street Glide to Califoria and found it to be fun. But the miles just melt under the ST. No, if they don't understand, I can't tell them.

Anyway, I love my Harleys but I don't think that HD could design something like the ST. Anyone have an opinion.?

It may not be that Harley cannot design something like the ST (I've never ridden one but based on your posts about the bike, it sounds like a smooth powerful machine), it's just that HD just won't.

Agreed. No reason for Harley to do it. The sport-tourer market in North America is small, tiny compared to cruisers, sport bikes, even dual-sports. Ducati got out of it, Aprilia got out of it (no more ST3's or Futura's). Honda, Yamaha, Kawi, BMW and Triumph fight over the crumbs. No need for another player in that market.

Right now I think that things will get worse then better so I'm investing in new motorcycles. Even if things don't throw the company into confusion then there will be great changes to the way Harley is designing and marketing its products. So in the end I can enjoy them while I got them but they also will appreciate in value. We'll just have to wieght and see.

Eeee I feel like commenting on this is going to start an argument but I really really don't know if that's the best investment strategy. Unless youre buying a bike used at a price significantly below book and don't put too many miles on it or it's a classic bike, I think it's going to be hard to take advantage of any potential appreciation in value, especially if you think things are going to get worse before they get better and if the new products are going to be significantly better than what we can get now. The markets and economy won't be back to their height (in my opinion) for several years. I think people will continue to ask private for prices several thousands less than dealership prices and won't be buying above book value any time soon. You have to remember, vehicles are depreciating assets. If you're looking more for investment opportunities, I think the stock market is a much much much better choice (but that's just me). Just tryin to help a fellow rider out.

[Ryethil]

I should be doing something but I'm just having fun sitting and let my toes feel the breeze.

Eeee I feel like commenting on this is going to start an argument but I really really don't know if that's the best investment strategy. Unless youre buying a bike used at a price significantly below book and don't put too many miles on it or it's a classic bike, I think it's going to be hard to take advantage of any potential appreciation in value, especially if you think things are going to get worse before they get better and if the new products are going to be significantly better than what we can get now. The markets and economy won't be back to their height (in my opinion) for several years. I think people will continue to ask private for prices several thousands less than dealership prices and won't be buying above book value any time soon. You have to remember, vehicles are depreciating assets. If you're looking more for investment opportunities, I think the stock market is a much much much better choice (but that's just me). Just tryin to help a fellow rider out.

You won't get an argument from me. Of course the stock market isn't doing any great shakes and even the price of oil is dropping.

No, do to the economic conditions, the market for motorcycles is very weak. Add to this that there are still a large segment of the populance that is losing their jobs and foreclosing on their morgages. So I found a few bikes that I wanted and are doing them up as I want them. Except for the ST which I bought because I wanted it, the rest of the motorcycles I've bought have been bargan basement in price due to several factors. Like the 2009 CrossBones that I bought because a guy was afraid his wife would divorce him if he didn't sell it back. The dealer didn't want it so I offered what he had left in payments and he took it. So I got it for several thousand off the actual value and the guy that sold it to me was happy.

The rest of the motorcycles are like that. So I plan on riding them and whether or not what I think is going to happen, actually happens. I will have the pleasure of riding them now. And when I need or want ot sell one, I'll get what I paid for it back because I paid such a reduced price for them when I bought them.

Anyway, it's only about 4 or so, not counting the ST. I may be wrong and Harley may come out with the very motorcycles that I have lusted all my life but I can sell the ones I have and get the ones I want.

So what ever happens, I'm covered unless Harley Davidson trashes all its user base and they all leave HD and go ride Vespa's. At that point the price for "GOOD" Harleys will be trashed and I'll have another couple of them to ride.

[koji52]

Well, good enough for me. I just know a few people who believe that a vehicle is a good investment putting thousands of dollars in and thinking their time will generate a return. Just wanted to give ya another point of view.

Back to wishing it was Saturday and thinking about my hopefully new ride.

[jstark47]

.....Anyway, it's only about 4 or so....

"or so" ??? How many motorcycles is "or so"??


You sound like me, justifying my antique camera collection to my wife: "Honey, it's only about 30 .... or so...."