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[koji52]

Their bikes for example are loud by design

No, they are not. The bikes all meet current DOT and EPA regulations for noise and emissions. It's the owners who replace the stock mufflers with loud aftermarket mufflers that make all the noise.

People like me

[Greg .]

I think adults should be educated ... but then make their own decisions.

[havegunjoe]

Their bikes for example are loud by design

No, they are not. The bikes all meet current DOT and EPA regulations for noise and emissions. It's the owners who replace the stock mufflers with loud aftermarket mufflers that make all the noise.

Maybe I should have put it that they have a certain sound to them by design and that sound is still pretty loud even when stock. I didn’t say it wasn’t legal. True some riders make them even louder.

[HYPERR]

Their bikes for example are loud by design

No, they are not. The bikes all meet current DOT and EPA regulations for noise and emissions. It's the owners who replace the stock mufflers with loud aftermarket mufflers that make all the noise.

Maybe I should have put it that they have a certain sound to them by design and that sound is still pretty loud even when stock. I didn’t say it wasn’t legal. True some riders make them even louder.

Actually Harleys are not really loud at all from the factory. Totally stock, at idle, the mechanical clatter from the air cooled engine is actually louder than the exhaust.

[Ryethil]

Their bikes for example are loud by design

No, they are not. The bikes all meet current DOT and EPA regulations for noise and emissions. It's the owners who replace the stock mufflers with loud aftermarket mufflers that make all the noise.

Maybe I should have put it that they have a certain sound to them by design and that sound is still pretty loud even when stock. I didn’t say it wasn’t legal. True some riders make them even louder.

Actually Harleys are not really loud at all from the factory. Totally stock, at idle, the mechanical clatter from the air cooled engine is actually louder than the exhaust.

Same problem that VW Beetles have. Without a waterjacket around the noisy parts, it can make quite a clatter. One of the reason that the air-cooled Beetle stopped being imported is that it couldn't meet certain noise standards though there were greater problems than just noise.

[HYPERR]

Their bikes for example are loud by design

No, they are not. The bikes all meet current DOT and EPA regulations for noise and emissions. It's the owners who replace the stock mufflers with loud aftermarket mufflers that make all the noise.

Maybe I should have put it that they have a certain sound to them by design and that sound is still pretty loud even when stock. I didn’t say it wasn’t legal. True some riders make them even louder.

Actually Harleys are not really loud at all from the factory. Totally stock, at idle, the mechanical clatter from the air cooled engine is actually louder than the exhaust.

Same problem that VW Beetles have. Without a waterjacket around the noisy parts, it can make quite a clatter. One of the reason that the air-cooled Beetle stopped being imported is that it couldn't meet certain noise standards though there were greater problems than just noise.

It is also getting harder and harder for manufacturers to meet the strict emission standards with a big air cooled twin. My Hypermotard which is a 1100 air cooled L-Twin comes very lean from the factory to meet strict Euro standards.

[Ryethil]

Their bikes for example are loud by design

No, they are not. The bikes all meet current DOT and EPA regulations for noise and emissions. It's the owners who replace the stock mufflers with loud aftermarket mufflers that make all the noise.

Maybe I should have put it that they have a certain sound to them by design and that sound is still pretty loud even when stock. I didn’t say it wasn’t legal. True some riders make them even louder.

Actually Harleys are not really loud at all from the factory. Totally stock, at idle, the mechanical clatter from the air cooled engine is actually louder than the exhaust.

Same problem that VW Beetles have. Without a waterjacket around the noisy parts, it can make quite a clatter. One of the reason that the air-cooled Beetle stopped being imported is that it couldn't meet certain noise standards though there were greater problems than just noise.

It is also getting harder and harder for manufacturers to meet the strict emission standards with a big air cooled twin. My Hypermotard which is a 1100 air cooled L-Twin comes very lean from the factory to meet strict Euro standards.

I tried to say that as one of the problems that Kieth Wandell is facing right now when I was trying explain how the dealer's meeting was going to be so different. I think 2009 is as hot as I want to go as far a lean mixture caused heat is concerned. They don't check for emmisions on bikes yet so we can use power commander like devices to cool things off but if they ever want to start checking, we're all going to be trashed.

And it isn't just the air cooled bikes. My 2009 ST had a mysterious heat problem that seemed to come and go the closer you were to 99-100deg. But it also suffered heat problems because it wasn't designed for the new emissions control requirements.

Is this how it goes out? With only a whimper!

[koji52]

yea i'm a big fan of the "you've got an exhaust, it passes the EPA portion of this inspection" process. Otherwise, I'd be screwed.

[jahjlh]

You know, living in Hawaii, I see tons of folks riding without helmets. It's not the law. But if you think it's ok to get your head scraped off, then by all means. I think the bike is just as much fun with a helmet and jacket on.

[Ryethil]

You know, living in Hawaii, I see tons of folks riding without helmets. It's not the law. But if you think it's ok to get your head scraped off, then by all means. I think the bike is just as much fun with a helmet and jacket on.

Yeah, if they care so little about their brains, at least they could cover in a plastic bag so it would be easier to clean up at the site of the accident.