Anyone Megasquirted a bike before?

[TechTMW]

You're going to have to get a sensor inside the engine. That's going to be a PIA.

What is that for, now? No sensor needed inside the engine at all for just EFI.

Looks like you got alot of stuff figured out, goodonya. Are the gsxr throttle bodies the same size as your Kat intakes?

As for the sensor - On sequential efi systems, there's a sensor (usually on the camshaft) that tells the injectors to spray. The injectors need to spray somewhere about the time that the intake valve starts to open, hence a sensor on the camshaft or the flywheel. This also allows you to fine tune the economy of the bike.

I guess (from looking further into the Megasquirt Site) that you could run the system from the electronic pulses going to your tacho. hmm. Your tacho IS electronic, right

BTW, I used to communicate alot w/ Peter Florance (Who MS recommends for building the efi boxes) good guy, helped me out alot when I set an old BMW (car) with fuel injection.

[Skier]

You're going to have to get a sensor inside the engine. That's going to be a PIA.

What is that for, now? No sensor needed inside the engine at all for just EFI.

Looks like you got alot of stuff figured out, goodonya. Are the gsxr throttle bodies the same size as your Kat intakes?

As for the sensor - On sequential efi systems, there's a sensor (usually on the camshaft) that tells the injectors to spray. The injectors need to spray somewhere about the time that the intake valve starts to open, hence a sensor on the camshaft or the flywheel. This also allows you to fine tune the economy of the bike.

I guess (from looking further into the Megasquirt Site) that you could run the system from the electronic pulses going to your tacho. hmm. Your tacho IS electronic, right

BTW, I used to communicate alot w/ Peter Florance (Who MS recommends for building the efi boxes) good guy, helped me out alot when I set an old BMW (car) with fuel injection.

Check out the Megasquirt FAQ; specifically, the question titled Can I do sequential injection with MegaSquirt?: http://www.msefi.com/msinfo/

However, sequential injection does not necessarily mean you are injecting into an open intake valve all the time. The intake valve is only open less than 30% of the time in a typical 4 stroke engine. Once you are trying to produce more than about 25% of maximum HP your injectors are firing for longer than the intake valves are open. If your maximum HP is correctly calibrated to a safe 80% duty cycle, your injectors are injecting well over 50% of the time on closed valves.

As for the GSXR throttle bodies, I'm not sure about the size. I am thinking about emailing some sellers on ebay and seeing if they are kind enough to take some measurements for me.

And I sure hope my tach is electronic, but I don't recall off the top of my head.

(edit) The R6 throttle bodies on ebay do include the throttle position sensor.

[Aquaduct]

Well, I'll take my initial comments back. It sounds like you've got a pretty good handle on the concept and should be interesting. Given my nature, I'd still be worried about durability if for nothing else, the ECU, but it sounds like you're on a plausible track.

Good luck.

[mydlyfkryzis]

What will you gain (beside experience in doing this) with the fuel inj?

Seems like a lot of tinkering to get is running than endless tinkering getting it running right.

According to the site, you will be doing a lot a software mapping.

It's funny (ironic) that BMW had a heck of a time getting the mapping right on the K1200s and you are pretty confident that you will get it right easily.

I suspect that the project will work in the sense that the motor will run, that you will get a great education in FI and engine mapping, and in the end have a one of a kind bike that has some "issues" and can't be fixed or repaired by anyone else but you. While the parts you are buying are reliable on their own, I doubt the system you create will be reliable.

Do it for the fun and education, but I suspect the bike will be essentially worthless for resale and not the kind of bike I would want to ride further away from home than I cared to walk back. It is an interesting project, and if successful would make a nice showbike.

Of course, I prefer a daily rider type bike. IF you have another bike (good for going for parts runs) then hack away. It is a cool project foe thye heck of it.

Good luck,

[Skier]

My tach only has wires going to it, so I'm going to assume it is electronic. Should be easy to set the ECU up for alpha-n (throttle position and engine speed) or speed-density.

I am not 100% sure if the R6 injectors will work for my bike or not. I assume they flow about as much as the '02 GSXR-600 injectors, which means about 12.6 lbs/hr or 132 cc/min flow rate. The GSXR injectors flow ~240 cc/min, but according to the calculators on MSEFI.com's page, the motor should only require 177 cc/min.

Once again, using the calculators on that page, the numbers are for from a 45 PSI fuel rail, which means they are flowing roughly 75% of their rated capacity. If I lower the fuel pressure using an adjustable FPR to about 35 PSI, I would be at 83% of rated capacity, which should be fine. That way I'm not making the injectors' idle pulse width too short, causing tuning problems.

I think I can come in around my budget for all of the items if I scrounge used parts via ebay and junkyards.

[Skier]

What will you gain (beside experience in doing this) with the fuel inj?

Education about EFI systems is one of the highlights of the project. Being able to spend a lot of time playing with my motorcycle's engine is another high point. And the fact I can move my EFI system with little work to my next bike is another good thing.

If/when I want to sell the Katan, I'd basically remove the fuel pump and return lines, plug the o2 sensor bung and replace the stock carbs and airbox, which will be sitting around. Wham, running, stock Katana.

Seems like a lot of tinkering to get is running than endless tinkering getting it running right.

According to the site, you will be doing a lot a software mapping.

It's funny (ironic) that BMW had a heck of a time getting the mapping right on the K1200s and you are pretty confident that you will get it right easily.

There are many ways of making the map "right." If I can get the motor running acceptably, I can play around with it from there and learn a lot while doing it. I am not confident I can make a better mapping for a motorcycle than a team of paid engineers, but why not give it a shot and see what happens?

I suspect that the project will work in the sense that the motor will run, that you will get a great education in FI and engine mapping, and in the end have a one of a kind bike that has some "issues" and can't be fixed or repaired by anyone else but you. While the parts you are buying are reliable on their own, I doubt the system you create will be reliable.

Do it for the fun and education, but I suspect the bike will be essentially worthless for resale and not the kind of bike I would want to ride further away from home than I cared to walk back. It is an interesting project, and if successful would make a nice showbike.

I'm really not into showing my bike off, I'd rather ride it. And as I stated before, I can replace the stock fuel system with little effort and more the Megasquirt setup to my next bike.

Of course, I prefer a daily rider type bike. IF you have another bike (good for going for parts runs) then hack away. It is a cool project foe thye heck of it.

Good luck,

I have an '86 Yamaha Radian daily rider that has yet to have any major problems in the 9,500 miles I've put on it in the past season and a half. It makes a great parts-getter, along with my Civic.

So yes, I have another bike and will probably keep things that way. I also believe it will be an awesome project and thank you for your well-wishing.

[Skier]

I'm still doing a heavy amount of research on this project. I am still looking for an inexpensive inline fuel pump capable of the high pressures needed for EFI, as well as an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Looks like I was right to budget a couple hundred dollar slush fund. Current totals are looking to be in the $700 area, depending on the fuel pump and AFPR.

I'm still open to discussion, if you have two cents to throw in, please do.

[mydlyfkryzis]

I'm still doing a heavy amount of research on this project. I am still looking for an inexpensive inline fuel pump capable of the high pressures needed for EFI, as well as an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Looks like I was right to budget a couple hundred dollar slush fund. Current totals are looking to be in the $700 area, depending on the fuel pump and AFPR.

I'm still open to discussion, if you have two cents to throw in, please do.

Most cars run about 45PSI for FI. ANy FI car pump would do, but they are usually in tank models, you would need some surgery on the tank to make it work. I'd pick on from a small 4 cyl car as the bike won't need any more GPM than a 4CYl car.

Check aroundm there might be a FI car with an external pump which may make the install easier.

[TechTMW]

http://www.silent-hektik.com/page15.html

This is the direct replacement kit for BMW airhead 1000cc bikes. The reason I post this is because I used to work in a German Auto junkyard where we restored 70's and 80's Porsches BMW's and Mercedes and I can guarantee that the fuel pump shown is a typical Bosch fuel pump for german cars of this vintage (It's the big silver cylindrical thing that's zip-tied in the photo)

I think if you go to a junkyard and find a pump like this you will be golden. (On BMW's it's located UNDER the car by the fuel pump) Or, I think you should be able to go to an auto parts store and find an edelbrock or similar fuel pump which will suit your needs. If you tell the guys what pressure you are looking for, they should be able to set you up with something that will work. Good luck and keep us posted.

[Skier]

http://www.silent-hektik.com/page15.html

This is the direct replacement kit for BMW airhead 1000cc bikes. The reason I post this is because I used to work in a German Auto junkyard where we restored 70's and 80's Porsches BMW's and Mercedes and I can guarantee that the fuel pump shown is a typical Bosch fuel pump for german cars of this vintage (It's the big silver cylindrical thing that's zip-tied in the photo)

I think if you go to a junkyard and find a pump like this you will be golden. (On BMW's it's located UNDER the car by the fuel pump) Or, I think you should be able to go to an auto parts store and find an edelbrock or similar fuel pump which will suit your needs. If you tell the guys what pressure you are looking for, they should be able to set you up with something that will work. Good luck and keep us posted.

I am currently looking for a fuel pump from a late 80s or very early 90s Ford F150 or Econoline van. They are one of the recommended inline pumps on the Megasquirt fuel page. I figure I can probably get one of these from the many people parting out F150s of that era for cheap or find a junkyard equivalent. I don't imagine one would run me more than $20, tops.

Then I'm just left at finding or making an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. I am currently looking at possibly using an air pressure regulator, such as this. I'm not sure if it will handle fuel, though. I'll need to research it some more, but $11 is a lot easier on my wallet than the $120 Aeromotive models.