Responsability for others

[ZooTech]

Rule #1 - Ride Your Own Ride

Yes, you are in a group...but everyone must understand that you are NOT tethered to one another. They must not become fixated on maintaining a constant distance between themselves and the bike ahead of them. They must take each and every turn as if they were alone. Anyone who blames your pace for their spill has personal accountability issues.

I strongly disagree. If you are assuming the responsibility of leading a group, then some sacrifices must be made. If you enjoy riding at 100 MPH, that doesn't mean everyone "must" keep up with you. That is not a good leader. Gather the group and ask them what speed they are comfortable with. Ex: the speed limit: 5 miles over the limit: 10 miles over: etc.



Being a leader is setting examples. It's maintaining the pack and keeping your people safe. You don't make them do things that would get them killed because of your own risky riding style. If you are not willing to sacrifice your riding style to be a leader, then don't be a leader...period. If it's a rare occasion to lead, then a small sacrifice will not kill you.

If everyone is of the mentality that they must do exactly as the leader does then when sapaul manages to screw-up (hypothetically, sapaul) and lays his bike down on a gravel-covered curve or takes a turn too fast and goes left of center everyone else will follow suit. Maybe if you're going along with the "leisurely" group there's a certain amount of inherent safety one can expect, but the "brisk" pack needs to know the risk involved. Case in point, the following pics are from an incident which was caused due to this "tethered together" mentality:



Note the Harley Road Glide facing the opposite direction. The two of them had different bikes, different physical attributes, and different experience levels...but she admitted to trying to ride the same line as he did on a bike she just bought eight days earlier. She ended up going wide on the turn, crossed over the line, and dumped it in the gravel causing her to hit a half dozen fence posts.

This next pic is of my dad, my brother-in-law, and I about forty miles south of the accident scene:



Note the lack of road rash and mangled chrome. That's because we "rode our own ride". There's no way my dad's C50 or my bro-in-law's V-Star 1100 can keep up with my Mean Streak on a technical road like that, so we all rode with the understanding that we likely wouldn't see one another for the duration of that part of the ride. Even if I had slowed way down and "sacrificed my riding style" just to remain in view of them, I personally think it would have been more dangerous. With all the blind curves, hills, and gravel on that road, any mistake I made would probably be mimicked by my followers. She crashed on mile one and we made it the whole way...so which method is "better".

[Mag7C]

If you aren't comfortable leading you could tell them why and just stay as the tail guy. Rides are no fun with stress.

[Meanie]

Some good reading on group riding and leading.

http://www.njmc.org/etiquette/
http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/st...al/groupriding/
http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/t...sp?TOPIC_ID=184
http://www.valueaccessories.net/Group%20Riding.htm
http://www.ehow.com/how_8359_ride-motorcycle-with.html

[Lion_Lady]

Being the lead rider means you do hold some responsibility for what happens to the group. You need to somehow evaluate those who will be following... and be prepared to tell someone they're out of line or riding unsafely when you see it.

To avoid any misunderstandings, you ought to make sure those riding with you know what to expect and what you expect in turn from them.

"Ride your own ride" is a terrific concept, but is too easily lost in the excitement of a group ride. The leader maybe starts to push the pace because folks are keeping up well, without realizing that some may be just barely hanging on... all manner of unforseen things happen.

Keep a level head and it should go well.

P

[sapaul]

This is a great debate guy's keep it coming. It's obvious that there are two very strong principals here. One thing I have picked up on the group rides that scares me a little is "The shy guy" this is the guy or girl that decides they want to ride in the fast group. Remember the BMW figures I posted before. 60% self taught, 20% taught by friends or family. These are the guy's who are not going to say anything when questions are asked. We do plan the routes very well and each will be advised on a re group point so no one gets lost. This planned trip covers 600kms one way, 250 of which are in the mountains. The main thing I am picking from you is the need to communicate well.

[flynrider]

Frankly, LionLady's description of a group ride seems a bit alien to me. Far more structured and regimented than any group I've ridden with. On my group rides the leader is not responsible for what happens to the group. We are a somewhat independent lot and tend to take issue with others being responsible for us. The leader is just the guy in front. That's it. If the group leader attempted to scold someone about their riding style or habits, he wouldn't be welcome in the group for long. We ride our own ride.

I suppose the proper group etiquette is going to depends largely on the type of group. Those with lots of rules and responsibilities are going to vary greatly from the loose group of bikers that are just out for a ride together.

[ZooTech]

Indeed. That much structure and hierarchy doesn’t sound like a relaxing, enjoyable experience to me. I am almost always asked to lead our group rides, but never asked to make sure everyone can remain exactly two seconds behind me at all times. The few really large group rides I have been on which took us to some pretty technical spots were a bit nerve racking since we were expected to maintain close quarters and I always ended up with a squeamish Harley rider in front of me that panic-braked before every turn. Of course, that caused a ripple effect for everyone behind us and was just unsafe in general. While it was great being a part of a 200+ motorcycle group riding through the back hills of Ohio, I’d much rather have my space and be able to take corners at my own speed. I don’t see the point of taking us on a technical road and then making us all hold back.

[Lion_Lady]

What the originator of the post queried about was a situation where he was ASKED to lead a group. This, in my mind, sets it far apart from the casual group of friends who are riding together.

Sure, when its a bunch of buddies who ride together regularly, and know one another's habits or tendencies, then the "ride your own ride" concept holds very true. But if its a mixed bag of folks with various levels of expectations and experience levels then someone MUST lay out at least the bare bones of what's what to avoid potential miscues and confusion.

I was on what was supposed to be a 'just friends ride' where the leader headed off, assuming we were all on the same group ride techniques page. But I quickly observed that some of those riding along weren't following the 'expected' protocols - not in staggered formation, jumping in line, not filling in if someone dropped back, not stopping side by side at stops and lights.

Passing on double yellow lines became a BIG issue of discussion after the ride. The leader regularly does so when conditions allow a clear line of sight, knowing that a MC has much greater acceleration than any car. My dh and I do as well, but with only two of us it isn't nearly the nightmare it became with over 10 bikes.

If someone had just asked a question or two, or the leader had offered up some of his quirks beforehand, all would have gone much more smoothly. No one was hurt but it could have gone easier with a bit of discussion beforehand.

P

[sapaul]

So the biggest rule should be NOT to try and keep everyone happy.

I have also ridden in the large groups before and because we do not have too many cruiser riders, we get the other problems, like guy's popping wheelies in the middle of the pack and showboating for his GF. The club chairman or road captain usually comes down on this behaviour. On this ride I will be leader and the group Captain will be somewhere in the pack.

LL, I agree these issues should be spoken about up front.
Flyn, please go ride with a structured group, some of them are worse than Matron school.
Meanie and LL, I hear you and agree that there should be some responsability but I think that has to be up front like you said, let them know what to expect from me and me from them.

Rule #1 - Ride Your Own Ride

Yes, you are in a group...but everyone must understand that you are NOT tethered to one another. They must not become fixated on maintaining a constant distance between themselves and the bike ahead of them. They must take each and every turn as if they were alone. Anyone who blames your pace for their spill has personal accountability issues.

Zoo, as elequent as ever I AM GOING TO READ THIS TO THEM.

Mag, when you are asked and people have faith in you, you just have to rise to the challenge. It's not all about going fast or how good you are. The reason I started this thread was to obtain differing viewpoints from as wide a variety of standpoints as possible.

Thanks all. I will report back after the ride.

[ZooTech]

Good luck and, most importantly, HAVE FUN!