Italy or Japan?

[High_Side]

To put it more susccintly: "Japanese sportbikes [GSXRs, ZXs, CBRs, YZFs] are like Italian bikes [Ducatis, MV Agustas], but engineered by men who actually graduated college."

An $11,000 ZX10 or R1 would demolish that lame $50,000 MV f4 Taburini pouser bike in any measurable scale, be it performance, reliability, and, most important for those of us who do not live in Hollyweird...VALUE!!!

I've owned ALOT of Japaneese bikes and one Italian one. And to be truthful, the performance of the Japaneese bikes outta the box in untouchable. Italian bikes are built by artists and Japaneese bikes are built by machines and designed by committee. Don't fool yourself: for most of us who live in reality both the ZX10 and MV are poser bikes which we will never be able to ride to the limit. If you can appreciate motorcycle artistry and bikes built by experience not just CAD, you could understand what goes in to making an Italian bike. If you buy bikes based on "corrected quarter-mile and lap times" published in magazines, the Japaneese bikes are for you. And yes, they offer outrageous performance for the $. However, just like a '92 CBR900 is slightly less desireable to own today than that '92 851SP, don't expect that ZX10RR to be worth much when the ZX10RRR comes out in 6 months time.
Our S2R Monster has to be one of the lowest performance bikes for the $ that I have ever bought. It is also one of the most thouroughly fun motorcycles that I have ever owned. Some bikes can't be measured by performance stats in magazines.

[2006schoolbusyellow250R]

Having served a tour of duty in Japan while in the USAF, I must say...JAPAN. ALL. THE. WAY.

The motorcycle culture there is HUGE...way bigger than here in the US...and, for the money, Japanese make the best. Way better than some lame duck (pun intended) Ducati or MV Agusta that costs a kidney transplant and requires you have a live-in mechanic to keep the engine turning and the electrical system working.

To put it more susccintly: "Japanese sportbikes [GSXRs, ZXs, CBRs, YZFs] are like Italian bikes [Ducatis, MV Agustas], but engineered by men who actually graduated college."

An $11,000 ZX10 or R1 would demolish that lame $50,000 MV f4 Taburini pouser bike in any measurable scale, be it performance, reliability, and, most important for those of us who do not live in Hollyweird...VALUE!!!

Um, yeah, sorry. lol

Anyway, the Japanese love their bikes...you can take that to the bank.

I'd still take an MV Agusta over a ZX10 any day. I'd also take a R1 over a ZX10. Though i'd still rather have a MV Agusta.

PS - About your sig, I'd rather have a HD over a yellow 250R. Also, the HD would hold it's value a hella lot better than your kawa. Hey does it have the little flames down the side? Like what they do to little kids toys to make them seem "cool" so they can pretend to be a grown up with their little toy motorcycle with flames.

Don't know about you man, but I enjoy getting 78 mpg and only paying $49 a month for a NEW vehicle as a college student.

The HD would hold it's value better eh? In my area (Central Texas), Ninja 250s hold their value better. A $20,000 HD in 5 years will be worth only $8,000, while a $3,000 Ninja 250 after that same 5 years will still fetch at least $2,000. This is assuming both bikes are maintained and kept "as new". So, as a percentage, the Ninja holds MORE or it's value, and has LOWER insurance premiums than your chrome-ladden HD, and gets better fuel economy.

The MV does not race, so it has no street cred, other than being a rich boy's toy...moreso than even a Ducati. At least Kawasaki still races it's machines in the Bol d'Or 24 Hour Endurance Race, the Isle of Man TT, Moto GP, World Superbike, AMA races, etc, etc, etc...

When was the last time MV raced? Anyone? Anyone? Beuller? Beuller? Beuller? I think it was back before I was even concieved. The ORIGINAL MV company was great, but the company that ownded it let it die quietly. Therefore, ithe NEW MV has NO racing heritage, just the MV nameplate. Much like the revived Bugatti marque.

Oh yeah, my "toy" will eat your HD when it comes to the twisties...but if it is about the money, you spend $10K on any HD, and I spend $10K on a ZX-10R, hell, even "just" a ZX-6R...Your boat anchor HD, even with "Screami'n Eagle" parts (Ohhh....so affraid now.) would be so pwned. That is how technology works. You should know that, seeing as you claim to own a Honda. My old man worked on every kind of bike known to man for over 20 years after he left the Army. Now shut the hell up, I know my bikes son. Don't pee on my leg and try to convince me it's raining.

[High_Side]

Therefore, ithe NEW MV has NO racing heritage, just the MV nameplate. Much like the revived Bugatti marque. :

I love it when rookies spout about things they have no clue about on the internet. Google Massimo Tamburini and get back to us. When you find out he designed the first 916- (predecessor to the 996/998) you'll just write it off as another unpowerful rich boy toy, and come back in here and spout sumore. Then we'll tell you to google what bike owns more world superbike titles than any other in the past dozen years or so.....and to find out what bike he designed after that......

Now shut the hell up, I know my bikes son. Don't pee on my leg and try to convince me it's raining.

Er, whatever.... keep it coming man...your killing me....

[Ninja Geoff]

The HD would hold it's value better eh? In my area (Central Texas), Ninja 250s hold their value better. A $20,000 HD in 5 years will be worth only $8,000, while a $3,000 Ninja 250 after that same 5 years will still fetch at least $2,000. This is assuming both bikes are maintained and kept "as new". So, as a percentage, the Ninja holds MORE or it's value, and has LOWER insurance premiums than your chrome-ladden HD, and gets better fuel economy.

Here's some holding power for a HD:
$35K+
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1914-HAR ... dZViewItem
$24K+ (reserve STILL not met)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/94-Harle ... dZViewItem
$21K
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HARLEY-D ... dZViewItem
Buy it Now of $30,500
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1950-HAR ... dZViewItem

Oh yeah, my "toy" will eat your HD when it comes to the twisties...but if it is about the money, you spend $10K on any HD, and I spend $10K on a ZX-10R, hell, even "just" a ZX-6R...Your boat anchor HD, even with "Screami'n Eagle" parts (Ohhh....so affraid now.) would be so pwned. That is how technology works. You should know that, seeing as you claim to own a Honda. My old man worked on every kind of bike known to man for over 20 years after he left the Army. Now shut the hell up, I know my bikes son. Don't pee on my leg and try to convince me it's raining.

Too bad it can't even move out of it's own way. And did you know, the boat anchor of a HD known as a Street-Rod runs a 11.31 second quarter mile. Your beloved 250R runs what? 14 seconds? So power, and get this, the street rod can lean and handle well, 40 degree lean angle, more than most riders are cabable of confidently doing, i think a street rod would romp on you. Oh yeah, there's more technolody into the street rod than your little toy could ever hope to have.

As for my dirtbike, it's just motor, wheels, and some high travel shocks, not much technology in it. It's not even DOHC. Thought you know your bikes boy? Does your bike even have inverted forks?

PS - High MPG does NOT equal performance.

[TechTMW]

Technology has come a long way since 1986 when the ninja 250 engine was developed. I have a feeling that even this "technology" was developed before you were concieved ...

It's unfortunate you have to continually justify yourself to us. I still have a real point of contention with your definition of "Value." Alot of people here have bought bikes FROM 1986 (You know the same era as the ninja250) for under $1,000. You have to make monthly payments with interest for yours. Who's got the better deal?

It's all about what you can afford and what you like. If you like Japanese bikes and can afford to ride them, you should be happy - why the chip on your shoulder?

[bikeguy joe]

That's gonna leave a mark.......

[2006schoolbusyellow250R]

Technology has come a long way since 1986 when the ninja 250 engine was developed. I have a feeling that even this "technology" was developed before you were concieved ...

It's unfortunate you have to continually justify yourself to us. I still have a real point of contention with your definition of "Value." Alot of people here have bought bikes FROM 1986 (You know the same era as the ninja250) for under $1,000. You have to make monthly payments with interest for yours. Who's got the better deal?

It's all about what you can afford and what you like. If you like Japanese bikes and can afford to ride them, you should be happy - why the chip on your shoulder?

I bought the 250 because it had a WARRANTY. It is about performance per $, and the 250R has that. I could afford a ZX6R, but did not fancy going $9,000 in debt for it as a student.

When I was talking about the new MVs lack of racing heritage, I was refering to THAT BIKE (F4) NOT WINNING A SINGLE DAMNED RACE, OR RACING AT ALL.

If Honda brings us the V5, I am certain it will cost half what an MV F4 Tamburini does. Oh, and another thing, it will have a warranty over 10 mins/500 miles.

I have owned/driven cars from the "big three" countries (First car was a Fiat 2000 Spider 1979), Italian, German, Japanese...and I know when the bar has been raised.

The Italians do not have the performance edge now, Yamaha is on top, so where is the mighty Ducati now?

You say Ducati has won more titles with it's series of bikes than anyone else, eh? Hogwash. You go Google my son...Tally up all the GP wins, the Bol d'or 24 hour endurance race victories, Isle of Man TT wins, WSB championchips, constructor championships, etc...We all know who is the overwhelming winner: HONDA.

Oh yeah, your great Ducati is getting it's "O Ring" handed to it by Yamaha and Rossi, so swallow that, my child.

Just accept that you are Euro-centric like the rest of the fools who think the F4 is the best-looking bike ever...when the R1 is light years ahead of it, looks better...and, what a revolution this last thing is... And it starts.

Oh yeah, one last item to deal with: I was born 11/07/1981...for those of you lacking in basic math skills, that means I am 24, and I have been riding since I was 18.

Now go get to researching.

[2006schoolbusyellow250R]

The HD would hold it's value better eh? In my area (Central Texas), Ninja 250s hold their value better. A $20,000 HD in 5 years will be worth only $8,000, while a $3,000 Ninja 250 after that same 5 years will still fetch at least $2,000. This is assuming both bikes are maintained and kept "as new". So, as a percentage, the Ninja holds MORE or it's value, and has LOWER insurance premiums than your chrome-ladden HD, and gets better fuel economy.

Here's some holding power for a HD:
$35K+
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1914-HAR ... dZViewItem
$24K+ (reserve STILL not met)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/94-Harle ... dZViewItem
$21K
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HARLEY-D ... dZViewItem
Buy it Now of $30,500
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1950-HAR ... dZViewItem

Oh yeah, my "toy" will eat your HD when it comes to the twisties...but if it is about the money, you spend $10K on any HD, and I spend $10K on a ZX-10R, hell, even "just" a ZX-6R...Your boat anchor HD, even with "Screami'n Eagle" parts (Ohhh....so affraid now.) would be so pwned. That is how technology works. You should know that, seeing as you claim to own a Honda. My old man worked on every kind of bike known to man for over 20 years after he left the Army. Now shut the hell up, I know my bikes son. Don't pee on my leg and try to convince me it's raining.

Too bad it can't even move out of it's own way. And did you know, the boat anchor of a HD known as a Street-Rod runs a 11.31 second quarter mile. Your beloved 250R runs what? 14 seconds? So power, and get this, the street rod can lean and handle well, 40 degree lean angle, more than most riders are cabable of confidently doing, i think a street rod would romp on you. Oh yeah, there's more technolody into the street rod than your little toy could ever hope to have.

As for my dirtbike, it's just motor, wheels, and some high travel shocks, not much technology in it. It's not even DOHC. Thought you know your bikes boy? Does your bike even have inverted forks?

PS - High MPG does NOT equal performance.

Read my original post. DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR...the HD gets torn apart by some "little" 600cc four from Japan. Comparing apples to oranges. Comparing the fastest, most expensive HD, against the slowest, cheapest kawasaki?

Thinking. Not your strong suit buddy.

If you are going to make a point, compare dollar for dollar.

And your beloved Street Rod has a Porsche engine in it, does not speak much for HDs engine guys, eh? Have they even heard of DOHC? I guess they thought "liquid-cooled" meant riding the bike in the rain.

[bikeguy joe]

Why, don't "DOHC" mean "Danged ol' hog caller"?

[High_Side]

The MV does not race, so it has no street cred.....

Thats REALLY what it's all about isn't it?

When I was talking about the new MVs lack of racing heritage, I was refering to THAT BIKE (F4) NOT WINNING A SINGLE DAMNED RACE, OR RACING AT ALL.

How is that less of a racing heritage than the new ZX10 designed by a different committee than the last ZX10. Tamburini is an artist building modern classics....you might not be able to understand that...having gained all of your riding knowledge from reading magazines and what yer daddy toldja.....

If Honda brings us the V5, I am certain it will cost half what an MV F4 Tamburini does. Oh, and another thing, it will have a warranty over 10 mins/500 miles. .

Just like that $80K NR750 of '92 that Honda couldn't quite bring itself to import to the USA maybe????? The MVs are available now, and have a 12 month warrantee in the USA by the way......but it's not like you to get the facts mixed up is it????

I have owned/driven cars from the "big three" countries (First car was a Fiat 2000 Spider 1979), Italian, German, Japanese...and I know when the bar has been raised. .

Boy that really set the bar high!....REALLY, I didn't think you could out-do your last performance but then you do!

The Italians do not have the performance edge now, Yamaha is on top, so where is the mighty Ducati now?
You say Ducati has won more {you neglected to quote me on the "world superbike" part....but it's not like you to miss out on the facts is it?*insert by HighSide* }titles with it's series of bikes than anyone else, eh? Hogwash. You go Google my son...Tally up all the GP wins, the Bol d'or 24 hour endurance race victories, Isle of Man TT wins, WSB championchips, constructor championships, etc...We all know who is the overwhelming winner: HONDA.

You would think that they are the biggest company competing in the most racing series with the most riders and factory sponsered bikes with results like that! Oh, wait a minute......

Oh yeah, your great Ducati is getting it's "O Ring" handed to it by Yamaha and Rossi, so swallow that, my child.

As did Yamaha when Rossi was on the Honda, as did BOTH of them when he was on the Aprillia[Italian for nice bikes]....Do you see a pattern here?

Just accept that you are Euro-centric like the rest of the fools who think the F4 is the best-looking bike ever...when the R1 is light years ahead of it, looks better...and, what a revolution this last thing is... And it starts.

And how would you know this?????

Oh yeah, one last item to deal with: I was born 11/07/1981...for those of you lacking in basic math skills, that means I am 24, and I have been riding since I was 18.

Whoa! Impressive I'm tired of having the battle of whits with an unarmed boy, so I'll skip the years of experience chest beating. I have to say however that I have just about owned more Hondas than you've had birthdays. I'm a big fan. They do lots for the sport and have even single handedly kept a few racing series alive through the tuff times. I will always call B.S. however, when I read posts from someone who so obviously distorts or doesn't know the facts and comes kicking at others from within a could of ignorance. You may have already guessed but my MAIN ride is a Honda by the way, and it is a great bike. My point is that it IS great to take off the blinders once in a while and experience other things without pre-concieved notions of what is and isn't cr@p. It might even come in handy next time you want to log on to the internet, thump your chest and proclaim your overwhelming knowledge.....to others who get a kick out of it.