I'm beginning to be less and less enthusiastic about the MSF

[Sev]

pick and punch?

[cb360]

I get what you are saying zoo - I just think understanding the concept is a plus in this case. It ain't that hard to understand and it only takes doing it once when you are thinking about it to believe in it and reinforce the concept.

I don't think people new to hand-controls are the only ones who can benefit from motorcycle training. The fact is most all of us get many hours of instruction from someone when learning to drive a car whether it be a family member or a friend or driver's ed. - hell, lots of school kids get an enire semester or year of it and then can only drive with supervision for a year or more. And motorcycles are harder to operate than cars and naturally don't lend themselves to hands-on supervised instruction like cars do (no extra front seat). So I don't really understand the resistance to people taking a class. Hell, I wouldn't mind seeing a lot of cage drivers I encounter go back for a refresher course. Many people learn without a class. Good for them. People have performed surgery without a medical degree as well and I make a good living cleaning up after people who thought they should be their own general contractors. I maintain that the MSF would make better riders out of just about anyone who takes it if they pay attention and have a competent instructor. I had plenty of road miles under my belt when I got to the class - I was mostly there for the ins. discount and the ability to skip the license test - and I was surprised to not only learn a lot, but enjoy the whole experience. YMMV.

[ZooTech]

pick and punch?

Yup. I have fibromyalgia and had to drop my high-school typing class after three days. But, I manage to crank out 65wpm with my index fingers so I do alright.

I don't really understand the resistance to people taking a class.

I have nothing against the MSF course. The only reason I didn't take it was because it was booked-up six months in advance and I wasn't about to wait. But I question the wisdom of introducing such a concept so early on, especially when every single rider will do just fine while ignorant of it. It's a neat discussion topic for a bunch of seasoned riders, not something I would spring on a nervous newbie who has more important things to worry about.

[flynrider]

As a self taught old timer, I rode for several years before someone explained the concept of countersteering to me. I had been doing it instinctively, but after I had the concept in my head, I was able to conciously use it to improve my cornering abilities.

Going a bit wide in a turn can cause you to freeze up when you don't conciously know what you're going to do to fix the problem. Knowing that a push on the opposite handle bar will set you back on track is a good thing.

Granted, it's a confusing concept to explain verbally, but all becomes clear after the first time you try it on the road.

[cb360]

As a self taught old timer, I rode for several years before someone explained the concept of countersteering to me. I had been doing it instinctively, but after I had the concept in my head, I was able to conciously use it to improve my cornering abilities.

Going a bit wide in a turn can cause you to freeze up when you don't conciously know what you're going to do to fix the problem. Knowing that a push on the opposite handle bar will set you back on track is a good thing.

Granted, it's a confusing concept to explain verbally, but all becomes clear after the first time you try it on the road.

It is kinda like magic the first few times you do it on purpose when you know and understand what's gonna happen.

[9000white]

countersteering aint confusing--get on a bicycle with someone holding it and turn the bars to the left --tell whoever is holding it to let go it will fall to the right--turn right it will fall to the left.no laboratory equipment or scientists needed.

[CajunBass]

I started to take a MSF course, and dropped it after the first "track" day. I'm not sure who's fault it was. Was it mine because I didn't have enough experience riding a motorcycle to take advantage of what they were trying to teach, or did the instructors do a poor job of teaching? (I personally thought one of the instructors was a show off, locking the wheel on the bike he was riding and sliding into the "pits" several times, and riding around the course sidesaddle. I remember hearing one other student say "And he's teaching us how to ride safely?")

I've been told you should be able to take the basic course, never having ridden a motorcycle before and pass it. Well that wasn't the case for me. I had been riding my Majesty for a month or so around the neighborhood, so I had a basic idea how to ride. The clutch, shifting, and a rear brake that used a foot pedal were new to me, so I considered myself to be a raw rookie. The one day I spent there was the most fustrating, and miserable day I ever spent on a motorcycle. The only instruction I got individually was being yelled at "What do you think you're doing?" All other instruction was delivered to the group with a "hurry up and get this" attitude. There was not one word of encouragement, no matter how well I or anyone else did that I heard. I didn't go back the second day. I didn't gripe, I didn't complain, I just left and didn't go back. Well, I take that back. I did drive the 100 miles to the test site, then realized I really didn't want to go through that again and left before the class started. I got a book from the DMV, measured their course, and practiced the maneuvers in the parking lot at church until I was confident enough to pass the test. Will I ever take it again. I don't know. Maybe. Certainly not with the same outfit. I would say I simply didn't have the experience to hack it.

When I first read about countersteering, I admit that I really couldn't understand it, until I actually thought about what I was doing, and realized that was the way I have steered a bicyle and my scooter all along. I really still can't think of any other way you would do it.

[CNF2002]

Well if it really was as you say, I think you got a bad instructor. Sounds like he was showing off...only 'stunt' our instructor did was ride in a TIGHT circle for half a minute, but that was just to show us how tight these things can turn because a few students were frustrated in 'the box'.

Your experience on the Majesty could have hurt you too...was it the first time you'd been on a bike? You may have picked up some bad habits trying to learn it yourself, then got frustrated when the instructors showed you how to do it differently.

Don't give up. If you failed the course, dropped it during the course, or felt you didnt have enough experience to hack it...that's a BIG RED FLAG that you need to go back and take the course, and pass. Don't keep learning on your own, there's a good chance you'll get hurt.

Again I hope you get back out there and take the course and get back on your bike with some training to work on that experience and this hasn't turned you off of motorcycling. Then again I guess its not for everyone.

[scan]

I never rode a bike when I took the MSF and they taught me most of the stuff I know about riding in the two range days. I guess like anything else, if you have a bad instructor it ruins the class. I think your situation can be hard in a beginner course, since there will be some people who have ridden some (or a lot) and the more advanced riders you have in your class, the more new you feel. We had a guy in our class who seems to have been riding his whole life. He did the class in his sleep and left early. I'm guessing he was taking the class as a future intructor (that is required to become on intructor, plus the advanced class).

Anyway, I had a great experiance with the MSF, so I suspect it is usually a great experience.

[cb360]

Locking up the back wheel and yelling at people and riding around sidesaddle? Weird. That doesn't sound very professional. Our lead instructor took his job very seriously. He was a navy lifer in partial retirement and he did a great job. I guess it's like any other school, full of good teachers and bad alike. We've all had our share.