Someone please explain counter-steering to me

[sapaul]

Twice I have used counter steering to avert a nasty situation and you can not believe how quicly you can do an S if you know how and more importantly if you BELIEVE. Halelulah, I Believe

[camthepyro]

What's with everyone getting their panties in a twist recently? God, you'd think biking had been outlawed from the way everyone's been snapping at each other.

[Sev]

Who is snapping?

[The Grinch]

Who is snapping?

No one's really snapping. It's just that some people have opinions based on their own vague experience and they're unwilling to give them up even when presented with clear explanations that are backed up by research.

The current case in point is a good example. Some people still believe that you can body steer a motorcycle effectively even though people like Keith Code have devised methods (the no BS bike) that conclusively prove otherwise.

This wouldn't be so bad in and of itself, but there are lots of new riders on these forums, and we're doing them a disservice if we convince them to start using improper techniques, such as trying to bodysteer around a dangerous obstruction rather than countersteering, which is the only really fast and effective technique.

[Sev]

I never said that it could be done effectively or effeciently, I did however say that it was possible to turn the bike while keeping the bike vertical, at highway speeds. This (to me) is an indication that either my highway speeds are VERY slow, OR, that countersteering is a method of inducing lean, and it is the lean or acceleration towards the ground coupled with forward acceleration that makes my bike turn.


Or alternately I could lean out of a turn, and tip my bike over and go in a straight line. This is why it is so bad to have a passenger leaning against you in a turn, the bike is over on its side, the wheels have that "cup" shape, but the bike is going in a straight line because the weight remains centered with the passenger leaning against the turns. It is possible to overcome this with a greater application of countersteering (moving the center of balance to the inside) and turn the bike.

But ultimately it's all about shifting the weight by using the handlebars to tip the bike.

[camthepyro]

So I spent like the last hour riding around my neighborhood (I finally got my bike from my dad's) and Verm was right, it is pretty much intuititive. After like a half an hour I was leaning noticably in the turns, and was able to go faster through them. I never really noticed myself turning the bars at all, but I think I was, because while riding in a straight line, I turned the handlebars one way (slightly), and the bike leaned a little and starting turning the opposite way.

[niterider]

Now that you have counter steered to get into the right or left turn, you now have to counter steer to get yourself out of the turn to get the bike back on a straight line. Turn the front wheel a little tighter into the turn to shift weight in the opposit direction, a little turn on the throttle helps in pulling out of a turn. Anyone that rides a 2wheeler is using counter steering whether they know it or not. They may not be using it to the full advantage, but they are using it none the less.

[dr_bar]

But ultimately it's all about shifting the weight by using the handlebars to tip the bike.

Gee Sev... that sounds a whole lot like counter steering...

[Sev]

Because that's what counter steering is.

And the reason it works is because it moves the weight.

[ZooTech]

The No BS (Body Steering) Machine

If no amount of leaning made this bike turn then, I'm sorry, but all you naysayers regarding tire profile must be wrong. Leaning alone did nothing to turn this bike in this experiment. Only when the front tire was rotated off center did it turn, indicating that tire profile is a key element.