Which bikes suck?

[MotoF150]

My information comes from people that work at dealerships that assemble and ride the bikes all day, when all you work on and ride all day you can see and feel differences of every bike they tell me and I look and see and make personal observations myself.

[camthepyro]

Just a little bit of information here, the people at dealerships don't assemble the bikes, and I'm pretty sure the don't go out and ride all the bikes around for hours to be able to tell if there is a slight mis-alignment of the frame.

[Sev]

My information comes from people that work at dealerships that assemble and ride the bikes all day, when all you work on and ride all day you can see and feel differences of every bike they tell me and I look and see and make personal observations myself.

I'll pay you money for hard data proof that comes from a reliable 3rd party. Until then all I see is that load of bullshit you're trying to shovel at us.

[9000white]

the ones you are making payments on suck somewhat.

[Myself002]

My information comes from people that work at dealerships that assemble and ride the bikes all day, when all you work on and ride all day you can see and feel differences of every bike they tell me and I look and see and make personal observations myself.

me thinks he likes to get people riled up.

[fireguzzi]

I worked at a dealership, and in the case of that dealership, the people who did the assembly did not get to ride them all day. I wouldn't consider someone who just assembels the bikes all day an authority on them. Otherwise they would be the techs. But that may only be the case at the dealership I worked for.
Sure there may be a better quality manufacturer then the others, but they are all good enough to ride and race on safely, or they would not be ridden or raced. I dont think that any manufacturer uses bad enough quality parts to be considered unsafe, therefore the ranking of the four big japanese manufacturers is quite pointless.

[Kal]

There are stereo types out there

Hondas are well engineered and boring
BMW's are engineered even better but are decidedly boring
Suzuki's have poor finish
Kawasaki build bikes that have outstanding straightline speed but can be out-cornered by an oil tanker
Ducatis are highstrung and needs lots of tlc in a high maintainence kind of way
Harley-Davidsons have 9 out of every 10 bikes ever made still on the road, the remaing bikes got their owners home

Is there a bike out there that absoultely sucks, at everything, for everyone? I doubt it. Even CZ's get their day in the sun.

[scan]

It is such a dumb discussion anyway. Every manufacture mentioned in this post produces several different types of bikes. They are not manufactured in the same manner, so there is not way to blanket such a statement anyway. The frames between two different sports bikes from one manufacturer are very unique in the parts put in them. Some bikes have no welds at all. AND it was the Japanese that brought quality control and statistical process control to the US. We blew them off the face of the planet ending WW2, felt bad and then funded their rebound. They became the masters of manufacturing. At one time Japan equaled cheap quality, but the price was cheap too. This is no longer the case.

At the top end of the dollar scale all the Japanese bikes are made with the best parts and quality manufacturing. At the bottom end some compromises are made in parts and assembly to make the bikes affordable to the budget minded consumer. So all of the Japanese manufactures make less that stellar models too. Including Honda.

But who says you need facts anyway. You can say that blue is green and you won't be right. If I fight with you about that, I'm a fool for trying to prove such an obvious point.

And regarding banning a user. We (moderators) can request that from Mike, and if we are making a reasonable request, I'm sure Mike would listen. If you have a complaint about a user, let Mike know. He is willing to let someone know they are a problem, and ban them if they don't get themselves straigtened out. If a thread like this runs out of control for to long one of us usually lock it down to stop the silliness.

I can't believe that someone would use the defense that they know someone who is a flunky at a dealership and that is expert details. Yeah, let's see some numbers and sources, not just "I heard from a friend" bologna.

[camthepyro]

And regarding banning a user. We (moderators) can request that from Mike, and if we are making a reasonable request, I'm sure Mike would listen. If you have a complaint about a user, let Mike know. He is willing to let someone know they are a problem, and ban them if they don't get themselves straigtened out. If a thread like this runs out of control for to long one of us usually lock it down to stop the silliness.

Eh, it's not that big of a deal, it just bother's me that he's giving out advice like "you don't need to use the clutch to downshift, I never use it!" to new riders. That will probably just mess up the clutch, but still, what happens when he starts saying "hey, you don't need to use the brakes to stop when a car pulls out in front of you, just hope real hard!"

[TechTMW]

Ok, I think MotoF150 is usually full of it too, but I do have to say that I HAVE SEEN proof that Honda and Yamaha have better QC than Suzuki and Kawasaki.

I've posted about this before - same model and year Zuks and Kawi's will Dyno a (roughly) 7% difference in power right out of the box. Honda and Yamaha typically have a variance of less than 2% between identical models. To be honest, Yamaha actually comes out on the top of the heap in this comparo. I do NOT have the hard proof to show you guys, It was done by a shop with a Dyno (To show exactly what we are arguing about now) so take that for what it's worth. Also, it was only a comparo between the Big 4 Japanese manufacturers, I have no idea how any other company stands up to such scrutiny.

As for frames and whatnot - I dunno. I WILL say that Yamahas and Hondas come out of the crate almost fully assembled. Suzuks and Kawi's must be assembled at the Dealership, so any screwup in alignment could lie w/ the poor schmuck makin $7/hour bolting the bikes together.

As Scan mentioned, every manufacturer has 'premier' bikes and 'low level' bikes. As long as you like what you ride, I don't see that it's such a big deal. Even a variance in power output isn't going to be noticable by the rider unless he owns 2 identical bikes straight from the factory. You could buy a brand new Yamaha and screw up the break-in procedure and you will have lost power compared to a Yamaha that has been broken in properly.