Cager Indifference

[ofblong]

...you may be right, but what is the downside to wearing hi vis kit?

Looking like a grade-A moron for starters.

I agree what you wear is not a basis to drop your guard but if wearing hi vis gear saves one occasion where you do not have to demonstrate accident avoidance skill I will take it.

As a postman I wear a nice white helmet and a reflective vest and if it is raining, a flourescent yellow suit. I see on a daily basis that this gear simply does not work. I am not going to know if somebody notices my bright gear and choses not to run me over, but I do notice that I am just as safe wearing a black ensemble as I am a ridiculous yellow one based on the amount of times people have pulled out on me or otherwise failed to acknowledge my existence on the road.

so your saying all black at night is gonna make people see you just as easily as if you were wearing bright colors or if you bike was a brite color?

[Big B]

so your saying all black at night is gonna make people see you just as easily as if you were wearing bright colors or if you bike was a brite color?

actually, yes. at night your lights are saving your "O Ring", not your fancy yellow jacket. reflective piping might help, but if someone doesn't notice your lights it'd be hard to believe they'd notice what color your bike was. i haven't seen any numbers to back me up, but i feel as thought there's less of a chance that someone would pull out in front of me at night then during the day because headlights are so much more pronounced and visible in darkness, thus making me easier to see.

[dieziege]

Why do so many "authorities" (in the "experts" sense) say that simply wearing a white helmet reduces your chance of being in an accident by 23% or so?

http://www.health.auckland.ac.nz/news-e ... &from=more

[Mintbread]

so your saying all black at night is gonna make people see you just as easily as if you were wearing bright colors or if you bike was a brite color?

Geez, I even italicised the word daily.

However Big B makes an excellent point about lights. At nigt they can be rather visible.

[backrevin]

Mintbread...to use your description of wearers of hi vis gear I guess if I had to look like a grade A moron to go to work I might think differently about using hi vis gear for the ride.

..the contents of the link posted by dieziege seems relevant to the issue. I buy the research from NZ over mother-in-law advice from NSW - no offense.

[Mintbread]

Personally, I would take neither.
Experience something first-hand and you will know what works.

To add: I just re-read your first post which indicated that regardless of looking like an Outer Banks Lighthouse! you were still not seen. How can you possibly argue your point when you have already agreed with mine?

[dieziege]

Reduction is not Elimination...but it is still valuable.

People will justify their gear choices however they want... but as a driver who was trained from day one to be alert for motorcycles I always appreciated the riders who made their presence obvious. I always look for motorcyclists, and it is much easier to see those wearing bright helmets, using headlight modulators and bright tail lights... these things work and help the attentive drivers.

But you could easily say The attentive drivers (to the extent they exist) aren't the problem, it's the people yacking on their cell phones while they stuff their face and load videos for their kids. That's not true... attentive drivers aren't as much of a problem, but they still make mistakes and are still part of the problem. Maybe your bright gear won't help with the beoch who is fiddling with her purse in the passenger seat while drifting through lanes... but it'll help with me and people like me.

I would argue that otherwise attentive drivers are perhaps up to 25% of the problem. Why do I say that? Because according to the research I referenced (and a few similar studies) simply wearing a white helmet reduces the chance of an accident by almost 25%. My interpretation is that you are just as likely to have the cell-yacking airhead in his chrysler 300 turn left in front of you... but you aren't as likely to have the college student who's just trying to get to campus safely merge into your lane as you pass him.

[ofblong]

so your saying all black at night is gonna make people see you just as easily as if you were wearing bright colors or if you bike was a brite color?

Geez, I even italicised the word daily.

However Big B makes an excellent point about lights. At nigt they can be rather visible.

well if they are visable at night and are bright why not turn them on during the day? I would think it could only help because it is out of the norm and people tend to "gawk" at whats not the norm (meaning hey look construction lets stop and watch so we hold up 2 miles of traffic before we realize they are all beeping their horn at me).

[Mintbread]

That study is all well and good but I simply don't believe the results.
As I have stated, I wear both types of gear (hi vis and non) every day and have done for many years. I have had two major accidents involving a car turning in front of me. One, I was wearing my own dark riding gear and a car supposedly did not see me, made a right turn (equivelant to your left) in front of me and I subsequently hit her. Hard.

The other instance was when a car parked on the side of the road pulled out and did a U-turn straight into the side of me. This was after I clearly saw him turn his head and look straight at me. He was not on a cell phone etc, he simply did not see me regardless of the brightness of my gear. I came through a set of lights, saw his indicator on and expected him to pull out and go in the direction I was going, so I slowed down and moved towards the middle of the road just in case he pulled out. I did everything I possibly could to avoid an accident but it still happened. Exactly the same thing happened to a mate at my delivery centre a few months ago. He was wearing the same bright gear as I was (white helmet included) and a woman, also not otherwise distracted, did a u-turn straight into the side of him. In Australia far more postmen are injured or killed than police officers but it receives no publicity due to continued invisibility to the public.

You can quote all of the studies you like, but in my experience over several years on a daily basis, bright gear does not make me any more visible to car drivers than dark gear.
That is not justifying why I wear what I do, it is just plain old fact.

[Mintbread]

well if they are visable at night and are bright why not turn them on during the day?

For many, many years now new bikes sold in Australia are required to have their headlights hardwired ON when the bike is running. You cannot turn the headlight off even if you wanted to. I can't even remember the last time I rode a bike without a headlight on constantly.