Gear Question

[VermilionX]

http://www.bikercrap.com

[dieziege]

The problem is that I have fairly high standards and am willing to go out of my way to get what I want. Local vendors typically serve the indiscriminate majority who will accept whatever they are given.

There are local retailers who do their jobs right and get my business all the time... but if they don't or can't I certainly won't feel bad about sending my business to someone with a better business model.

A few classic examples of the ways my local dealers don't get my business:

1) Have a floor sample of the product but when I go to buy it say "we don't have any in stock right now... and if you want one it'll be a special order -- extra 20% and you pay now" if you have it as a floor sample, you had some intention of stocking it... don't expect me to pay extra because you can't keep your products properly stocked.

2) Have a bunch of common parts (e.g. sprockets) in a random assortment with no inventory control ("we have whatever is on the rack and the only way to tell what's on the rack" is to search through it) and then when you get tired of searching through random packages say "we can special order it...." (see #1 for the rest of the sentence).

3) Have one of each product in each style/size, so that if you are looking for boots you have a choice of Alpinestar Roams in size 9, Sidi on-roads in size 11, and so on... and yes they do have your size but it's pot luck as to which make or style you'll get.

And so on.... I'd rather buy online where I can get what I want when I want without having to screw around with them or pay extra just because I know what I want.

And what's the harm in the local vendors dying? Let 'em die if they can't offer some value.

[sharpmagna]

And what's the harm in the local vendors dying? Let 'em die if they can't offer some value.

You'll be singing a different tune when the piece you need is backordered at online shops and you need your bike fixed asap. it would've been nice to have just bought the part at the local shop, but alas they don't exist anymore

[Lion_Lady]

How it happens is that the business owner made poor business decisions. Including not stocking the right stuff... or charging too much... or perhaps choosing the wrong location.

So, how EXACTLY do you define "charging too much"?
Is it a percentage over . . . what? Or a specific dollar amount?

Or even "choosing the 'wrong' location?
Location is generally decided by factors not of the owners control. And as we all know, what was a GREAT location, maybe 5 years ago, sometimes becomes a BAD location due to any number of factors.

I'll buy from local stores if they have it in stock the day I want it. I won't pay a premium to have them order it...

What if they just happen to be out of your size or the color you wanted?

. . . especially since they usually start with the "no returns on special orders" type BS. If they don't have it right then and there, the business owner lost the sale from flawed business practices.

"flawed business practices" or from dealing with so many jerks like you?

Do you realize that a lot of businesses have started saying this BECAUSE so many folks will try on, ask for the item to be ordered, then never come back to pick up the piece? (Because they went online ?)

Frankly, I don't see the harm in poorly run businesses going under. Who cares if they are "local"?

If no one ever brings to the attention of the owner that they'd shop if such and such were stocked, how can they know? Yes, to some extent the owner should be ahead of the game on this, but sometimies they aren't because they are worrying about any number of things that you aren't even aware of.

Like how long they can even continue to stock protective gear if they must regularly 'write off' shop worn stuff because so many folks use them as a free "try on service" and then shop online.

P

[bok]

/me throws water on the fire

i love a good debate as much as the next guy, but this thread started as a "what is the gear I should be buying" thread, not a debate over local vs. online shopping...there are merits to both, and i think if i only had the choices that dieziege has, i would order online too..or i'd learn how to fit into size medim jackets (lol like that will happen)

[dieziege]

How it happens is that the business owner made poor business decisions. Including not stocking the right stuff... or charging too much... or perhaps choosing the wrong location.

So, how EXACTLY do you define "charging too much"?
Is it a percentage over . . . what? Or a specific dollar amount?

Methinks you need an economics 101 class if you are asking this. Charging too much means "non competitive pricing".

Internet retailers have a built-in cost disadvantage because of shipping, especially for time critical or impulse-driven purchases. Same day or next day shipping is prohibitively expensive. A retailer with items in stock can usually get away with charging a ~$20 premium on in-stock mid-sized items (helmets, jackets, etc.) because of the convenience factor. However, when the item is not in stock the convenience factor is removed... ordering online will take the same amount of time, then the brick&mortar retailer must compete more directly on cost, return and exchange policies, and other less tangible attributes.

It is therefore in the direct interest of the brick&mortar retailers to stock a wide selection. It is also in their direct interests to, if they do not have an item in stock, make the process of getting that item painless to the customer. Because let's face it going back to a store to pick up a special order item is a service to the business, not to the customer. The business may pick up an extra sale from the return visit... the customer just wastes gas and time. It is far more convenient for the customer to receive special order items via UPS.

Or even "choosing the 'wrong' location?
Location is generally decided by factors not of the owners control. And as we all know, what was a GREAT location, maybe 5 years ago, sometimes becomes a BAD location due to any number of factors.

Location is always controlled by the owner. It is their business... as for changes... they can move. The importance of location is well known in retail. This ain't new stuff we are talking about.

I'll buy from local stores if they have it in stock the day I want it. I won't pay a premium to have them order it...

What if they just happen to be out of your size or the color you wanted?

If I tell them what I want and they say "we don't have it", they don't have it. If I ask them to get some standard item (I'm not talking about the drive shaft for a '79 yamaha here...think "size 12 of these boots you have in size 10") and they say it'll be a special order pay in advance they don't have it.

From a customer perspective, special order items should be cheaper to offset the added cost of purchase (fuel and time spent returning to the store).

From a business perspective, customers who are planning to return to pick up special order items have a value to the store... they are giving you an opportunity to sell them more stuff in the return visit. In business that type of value is called an "intangible asset" (e.g. good will) and it can even be included in the net worth of the company.

. . . especially since they usually start with the "no returns on special orders" type BS. If they don't have it right then and there, the business owner lost the sale from flawed business practices.

"flawed business practices" or from dealing with so many jerks like you?

Flawed because it causes customers to spend their money elsewhere...something the business should be trying to avoid... but if we are tossing insults around I'd say it is more accurate to call you a fool for bending and spreading for inept businessmen and taking what you don't want because it "supports local" even when local is inferior.

Business is competitive... and Brick&Mortar stores have innate advantages over Internet retailers. If they don't exploit those advantages they are fools, or incompetent, and they should go out of business. Why? Because they are choking the market and preventing new and potentially better-run stores from opening. It is much harder to start a local business when someone else is already serving your target market...even if they serve it incompetently.

Your premise seems to be that there are a finite number of retailers in the universe and each time one closes it is gone forever... as though if Pete's Cyclescams of Bumpkinville NJ closes then Bumpkinville will never have another motorcycle retailer. The reality is that stores, restaurants, and all other businesses open and close all the time... and if one closes, it opens the market for new businesses to open. When those businesses are well run, they expand and serve broader markets. Take for example cyclegear... 60 stores so far and new stores opening all over the place... they are expanding even as some "locals" are dying. Why? Because they are better at running a business than the locals you are so concerned for. That is how it should be.

Do you realize that a lot of businesses have started saying this BECAUSE so many folks will try on, ask for the item to be ordered, then never come back to pick up the piece? (Because they went online ?)

It doesn't matter. If it was an item they should've stocked or do stock in other colors/sizes then having another in inventory is not a hardship. It is, by your argument, the reason they are in business... to provide local inventory for ready access.

Brick&Mortar stores exist only for the convenience factor. If they don't recognize this and provide that convenience, they should die and clear the way for new businesses that will.

Frankly, I don't see the harm in poorly run businesses going under. Who cares if they are "local"?

If no one ever brings to the attention of the owner that they'd shop if such and such were stocked, how can they know? Yes, to some extent the owner should be ahead of the game on this, but sometimies they aren't because they are worrying about any number of things that you aren't even aware of.

I bring it to their attention by requesting the item and, when they say "it'll be a special order and you must pay now" or anything similar, answering, "oh, that's OK I'll order it online".


It is their job to recognize customer trends... and to be blunt this is a trend that they could've picked up any of a dozen magazines and read about. It ain't news any more. Mailorder has existed for a long time... internet has just improved mailorder. As the owner of a small business it is to their benefit to know the changes in retail and keep up with the marketplace. If they can't... there are community college courses in the subject... and if that's too hard they can always just die and clear the way for someone else to serve those customers.

Like how long they can even continue to stock protective gear if they must regularly 'write off' shop worn stuff because so many folks use them as a free "try on service" and then shop online.

P

Breakage is just part of running a business. You factor it into your prices... just as internet retailers factor the cost of frivolous returns and the associated wear and tear that involves.

Again, I have nothing against a well run business... I simply don't see the harm in poorly running businesses shutting down. In fact I see it as a positive good... because poorly run businesses choke the marketplace and give industries a bad reputation.

If you like supporting a bunch of incompetents... good for you?