Total Motorcycle Community Forums

I took my dirtbikes out today and really paid attention to how much I countersteered and what everyone else is saying is true. If you are traveling at 15+ mph, it definately is much more effective...the funny thing was I never really thought about doing it, I just did. I guess subconciously it just catches on after a while...because I don't ever remember actually thinking about doing it...neat stuff.

WhyteGryphon wrote:I don't even think about it. I just do it.

Like wise I just do it, but I find if I think about what I'm doing, I can increase the effect further, and gain an even tighter turn radius.

It's the same with everything in life, you may be naturally skilled, but it doesn't mean theres no room for improving your natural skills, by thinking about it, and adapting

Nibblet99 wrote:

WhyteGryphon wrote:I don't even think about it. I just do it.

Like wise I just do it, but I find if I think about what I'm doing, I can increase the effect further, and gain an even tighter turn radius.

It's the same with everything in life, you may be naturally skilled, but it doesn't mean theres no room for improving your natural skills, by thinking about it, and adapting

Very true Andy. Very true.

I didnt know I was doing it until I read 'proficient motorcycling'. It may vary from location to location, but the MSF beginners course I took didnt mention countersteering. I'm betting the MSF experienced course will, I just wanted a little time to get to know my bike before I took that course. I guess it's getting close to that time of year where I should sign up . . . . .

In the curves I just do it and don't think about it. On the other hand I think about counter steer when changing lane, swerving and tight conner.

I plan to pratice more on twisty road to feel the couter steering first becuz I quite often lean the bike first before leaning my body so I scraped the peg quite often on very tight curve that way.

They taught countersteering in my basic MSF course - The Riders Edge at the H-D Dealership.

More time in the class and the saddle than many other MSF courses.....

You really don't get to choose at speeds above walking speed. In fact, as you pull up to a stop sign you can push the bar on the left just before you stop to tilt the bike toward your left foot as you put it down. If you are riding above a walking pace, you are countersteering. You can practice taking advantage of the phenomenon to improve your cornering skill, though. The more you are aware of it, the more it becomes natural, and the better you will be as a rider. One day, you'll suddenly notice the bike isn't "fighting back" as you ride it, and you'll realize you figured it out once and for all. Good luck!

I never even thought about counter steering, I just did it. Was never anything I had to teach myself. Instinct for me I guess.

(Warning: this discussion is somewhat speculative.)

I think countersteering is a 2-part process.

I've seen intricate discussions of gyroscopic precession of motorcycle wheels in countersteering, and as a physics hacker, I think they're likely to be bollocks.

What happens when you initiate a turn by countersteering is that you cause the wheel to turn opposite to your desired curve. That applies a lateral force below the center of gravity, which kicks the wheels to the outside and your body to the inside of the turn.

At this point, you are leaning into the turn, and the geometry of the fork and front wheel, and the weight of the bike, causes the wheel to turn back into the curve, allowing you to turn that direction.

You have to maintain the pressure on the inside grip, or the bike will actually try to drop farther into the turn.

If you do let go of the grip, an interesting thing happens; the bike drops farther, causing the wheel to turn more, which increases the lateral force to that side above that necessary to balance the centripetal acceleration of the current curve, which kicks the wheels back to the inside and your body back to the outside, straightening up you and the bike. It falls the other way, straightens itself, falls the other way, and so on. In fact, this is happening all the time when you're riding. It is what keeps the bike stable despite the noise from the road and your arms.

Likewise, if you try to "steer" by turning the wheel farther into the curve, you'll kick the wheels inward and your body outward and get the opposite of your desired curvature. You increase the curve by applying an impulse to the inside grip.

One person in my MSF class, without considering the math at all, likened it to unweighting when slaloming on skis, where you have to get your body across your target line before you can get a normal force into the opposite curve.

Now, I've got what, about 18 hours practice on a motorbike? but I've been analyzing this theory the entire time, and it's still backed up by observation. We'd have to rig up a pretty interesting experiment to differentiate between gyroscopic effects and the self-balancing effects of an articulated bicycle with a front-fork trail.

I also haven't done the precession calculations on paper yet, so when I do I may find that my back-of-the-encephalon calculation has a bug in it and precession actually does play a larger part in the process. But I'm reasonably sure it doesn't need to play any part in the process other than maybe a power-assist on holding the wheel steady with your inside hand.

In any case, there's no time to crank on the curl of the torque vectors when you're swerving around a car that just hit a llama, so I recommend everyone simply try it (just push straight ahead on the right grip while riding about 20 mph in a wide, wide, wide open space, to see how the bike reacts), practice it, and get it set in your muscle memory for the times you really need to get it done without thinking...

Better yet, sign up for an MSF Basic Rider Course, because it's featured there, along with a whole bunch of other stuff that surprised even the experienced riders in my group.