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Whoa... sorry, I walked into the wrong thread. I'll just quietly back out of here now...

The bibles is a set of teaching on how they thought we should live our lives. Its not the direct stone word of God but the interpretation of his followers. Just like if you or I were to write about how we thought God wanted us to live.

I would agree that God did make the universe but not at the point the bible says. Maybe it was Him who set the big bang in motion and just let it go from there.

Back in the day, humans didn't have the technology to fully understand the world so they just assumed that since there were people now, there had always been people. Now, however, we are able to put our knowledge of the universe to use and figure out how things eveolved.

We still cant figure out why the big bang happened so maybe it was God.
Bible thumping crazies need to realize that the Bible is not to be taken word for word and use it as guidelines

When God spoke it was created. The Bible is an account of the things God has done. The only difference between a bible thumping crazy and an non-believer is belief. If you don't believe the Bible where do you get your faith? The guidlines are the BEST out there. Eternal life is the main issue of the Bible. Our final destination should be our concern. Faith in Christ is how we get to heaven. If we should entertain the idea that God made evolution, then we are allowing ourselves to be the explanaiton of things we are unsure of. In the end Faith expressing itself through love is all that matters. The words of Christ are the words of God. It is easy to reject something that calls yourself to attention(I once did). But to follow it , it will preserve you until death and then forever in life.

I'm not saying I dont believe in God, Im roman catholic.

waht im saying is that you cant take the Bible literally. Its there to help us. There is no way that you can realistically take everything in the bible to be absolute fact. You have to read between the lines. Take the big meanign out of a parable instead of believe every word to be the truth.

If you take the bible to be 100% fact then we are all going to hell because basically everything you do is a sin and you're born with original sin. So you dont stand a chance.

The Catholic Church runs an evolution research program.

The point being that the Vatican intends to make evolution part of the dogma once they figure out exactly what it's about.

Until then they don't want to commit to a theory.

Remember, they didn't try Galileo for discovering the truth about the cosmos, they tried him for not letting them control the dissemination of the facts.

Now they don't mind when science proves the dogma wrong, they just prefer to make it look like it was their idea.

Science will chase religion deeper and deeper into the corners of epistemology, until all religion will have left is Godel's theorem, at which point there's no visible projection into any part of reality that our current living or future dead selves will have any means of observing or interacting with.

Someone tell Pascal he overestimated the expected value of the wager the moment he spent the energy to propose it.

Tally another vote for creation!

There are more than enough verses that say there is a chance to get to heaven. And they all point at Jesus. But truthfully WITHOUT him there is no chance.
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. -John 3:18

I'm more of an agnostic than an atheist.... that is, I simply don't know. And I just can't accept something so large on faith alone. I was raised as a religious person and remained serious about it into my twenties and even devoted three months to intensive bible study about twenty years ago. But it ultimately left me empty. I find the deeper you get into any of the christian sects (or other religions) the more it becomes apparent that the dogma you are exposed to excludes everyone but your group from salvation or the afterlife. I'm much more inclined to believe that all of us are full of it rather than just most of us. Oddly enough I've become intrigued by buddhism lately. I think it interests me because it's so logical and it isn't really a religion at all - more of a philosophy. And it's all up to you... no reliance on the old man up in the sky.

As for the topic at hand. There's lots of religions, not just one. Teach religion or the creation story (there's not just one) in religion class and teach science in science class and believe/worship whatever you want on your own time.

vulcanman500 wrote:There are more than enough verses that say there is a chance to get to heaven. And they all point at Jesus. But truthfully WITHOUT him there is no chance.
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. -John 3:18

So essentially I can live a good life, putting more time into helping others, than looking after myself, but I won't get into heaven because I don't believe in a god. I find it difficult to believe (assuming for one moment there is a higher entity) that he would be more concerned with our acknowledging him, rather than us striving to help other people around us. Viewed from this aspect, it seems the bible is more a human creation (Self importance being one of our flaws), than a divine creation.

I personally admire the bible from the way it teaches people to live a good life, and can bring hope and joy to many people who live in a world full of sorrow. Prehaps I'm fundamentally flawed in my denial of belief in a higher power. But I try my hardest to live a good honest life, helping people where I can.

Oh well... Oblivion or hell, look out I'm a comin' for ya

Andy

Nibblet99 wrote:[
So essentially I can live a good life, putting more time into helping others, than looking after myself, but I won't get into heaven because I don't believe in a god. I find it difficult to believe (assuming for one moment there is a higher entity) that he would be more concerned with our acknowledging him, rather than us striving to help other people around us. Viewed from this aspect, it seems the bible is more a human creation (Self importance being one of our flaws), than a divine creation.

Oh well... Oblivion or hell, look out I'm a comin' for ya

Andy

Nobody spends more time looking out for others than for themself. It is a physical impossibility, because you must look after yourself to enable yourself to look after others...The bible clearly shows us that our hearts desire will turn to loving (looking after) one another if we follow Jesus, and that they will know we are Jesus followers by our love for one another. To the sincere follower of Christ, caring for others is as natural as caring for yourself, and I meant no harm by the sarcasm of the first sentence. My apologies if I accidentaly offended. When people pose as followers of Jesus Christ, and exhibit a lack of love, they do not give glory to God, and yes it seems a little harsh to not let "good people" into heaven if they never accept Jesus. However, Jesus is the way, as all the fulfilled prphesies about him show. God gave us all an outline for eternal salvation, and made the rules alot easier for us to follow in Jesus. That makes it seem alot more fair, once you acknowledge the credit for your very life goes to him. The book of John is a good book for the teachings of Jesus for unbelievers. His very words make it more clear that most of us do, because we complicate it, and try to convict people of their sin. That isn't our place...the Holy Spirit will do it. And it's true, some will never believe. But it also isn't our place to judge and give up on people. I am glad this came up, and would gladly answer personal messages for any who are wondering about the salvation aspect of this. As for me, I believe in one God, creator of everything, and I also acknowledge the possibility of species changing and adapting to the environment. Why not? If I were God, I'd mix it up a little, and the Bible clearly says I'm made in his image. Btw, dinosaur footprints have been found in the same sedimentary layer as human ones.