First Bike - 4/3/2007 - Electrical Update

[ANDS!]

Well it looks like the concensus is that its a battery issue, and not the choke - which is frustrating, as its definitely something I should have asked about when I had the bike delivered; although the guy shouldnt have put "runs great" if it needed coaxing to run.

(40dollar) lesson learned.

===> (Seller)

[ANDS!]

Ok well it looks like my problems were more than a battery - but the battery was a problem. There was hardly any electrolytes in it (nearly bone dry), and we got no sparks when we crossed the terminals. Nothing. Slapped the new one in, and we got the starter to go - but as soon as my buddy (a neighbor actually who i have never met until today say me sitting on the bike, testing the "choke" to make sure that wasnt it - he then started throwing mechanical stuff at me, and I said - man just come down and help me, which we did over two hours) unhooked the positive terminal, the bike died. He said that was because the alternator never "engaged" and took over. . .

So we set about finding where the issue is heading and honestly - I forgot what we decided was going on. Something about the solenoid maybe. Anyway we didnt have time to get at where we needed to go - which was under the tank - but were doing that this weekend.

So basically - the starter is getting juice, but the alternator never takes over it seems. Anyone run into this problem, and can give us some pointers?

I also think the bike has been salvaged. The VIN number pulls nothing up, the seat isnt an original, there is new electrical tape on this cord next to the positive terminal (it has two 30V fuses on it - cant remember name of the piece) and the service manual is in flawless shape which suggests a recent purchase to fix up broken bike. Its a lesson learned, because this allows me to get into the bike and know how to tear one down if need be, but its frustrating because I've never sold a lemon ANYTHING on CL - which is where I got the bike, and the guy didnt want to negotiate on price. But, I dont know what legal recourse (if any) I have, so I've nothing to do but suck it up and move forward.

Anyway - any help would be good so we can potentially know what were getting into this Saturday.

[Sev]

Ok well it looks like my problems were more than a battery - but the battery was a problem. There was hardly any electrolytes in it (nearly bone dry), and we got no sparks when we crossed the terminals. Nothing. Slapped the new one in, and we got the starter to go - but as soon as my buddy (a neighbor actually who i have never met until today say me sitting on the bike, testing the "choke" to make sure that wasnt it - he then started throwing mechanical stuff at me, and I said - man just come down and help me, which we did over two hours) unhooked the positive terminal, the bike died. He said that was because the alternator never "engaged" and took over. . .

Hahaha, ignition systems are DC. This means that electricity is generated at the alternator (AC or alternating current) and travels through the rectifier - where it is turned to DC (Direct Current) through a series of diodes. It then heads into the ignition coils, and the power from the ignition coils needs to return to where it came from. This happens through the battery. If it cannot go anywhere (the circuit is broken) you're not going to have ignition anymore.

If you disconnect the battery of a running bike it will most likely die. This implies the bike was running, and if it was you're sitting pretty. I may be wrong about your particular bike... but I'm positive it's impossible to have an AC ignition system, as they require a stored then released charge (which is impossible with AC because it goes back and forth).


The Solenoid exists so you don't have a giant battery wire running from your battery to your handlebars down to the starter motor.

Basically a small amount of electricity is used in the solenoid to close a circuit capable of transferring large amounts of power.

You press the starter button and it activates a small electromagnet in the solenoid, which pulls (or pushes depending on the type) a plunger that completes the actual starting circuit and allows massive amounts of electricity to hit the starting motor. It isn't a problem with the solenoid.



All in all, if you can get the bike (which you seem to have indicated) to run it sounds like you're doing fine. Now, if the battery does not hold a charge THEN you have a problem with the alternator. The alternator maintains the charge on the battery.



I'm very hesitant to start ranting without access to the wiring diagram, but it sounds like your neighbour knows very little about bikes.

*edit*
It's also freaking stupid to disconnect the positive cable while the bike is running - this implies the negative is still hooked up. If you tap a naked part of the frame with your screwdriver/wrench you create a "short to ground" and dump all the power of the battery straight through it. You're now holding onto an arc welder... and may blow up the battery. Always disconnect negative first!

[ANDS!]

No no - Im fairly sure he knows what hes talking about as he instinctively knew what to grab and where wat was and said that he used to work on cars and bikes, and knew what mine was immediately. Hes older, but hes got more knowledge thatn I do. Im going off my memory and what I remember him saying and thus am more than certainly getting some things wrong.

The starter did start things rumbling but he did his little test, which youre saying is irrelevant as the bike is meant to die when he dc'd the pos. terminal. His opinion was that the engine would "turn", but the bike would end up dying again anyway and draining the new battery.

[Sev]

Did the engine start?

[ANDS!]

Ok heres the thing. . .MC sounds - Im not familiar with. I didnt hear any of the rumble, I did hear like sounds that werent the "Click-Click-Click". So Im going to say - YES. . .the engine started. I didnt mess w/ the throttle or anything, but I was getting action from the bike.

[Sev]

After you let go of the starter button what happened? Did everything stop (no noise at all)? Or did the engine start to run (humming like a car engine might)? I don't care if the bike moved or not, I want to know if the engine was burning gasoline.


*Also - please post a picture of your wiring diagram.

[ANDS!]

Im going to say yes - it kept running when I took my hand off - because I shook his hand in excitement thinking the deed was done. I can check that later, as we left the battery out of the bike to properly sit for a minute (manual said to do that).

Where would I find my electrical diagram?

[Sev]

In the back of the repair manual.


IF the bike ran, then it's not a problem with the alternator.

WHEN your "buddy" disconnected the battery, he broke the ignition circuit and the bike died.

[ANDS!]

Hmmm - any idea why he would think its a good idea to do what he did?

I think after I watch Lost Ill hook the battery back up. . .any idea what I should be looking for?