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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:01 am
by flw
It is a free country and we are just as free to make poor decisions that gets us killed. It simply ups the odds against you instead of for you.
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:52 am
by Gadjet
hi-side wrote:He eludes to Jeremy Toye's riding an R1 out of the box and making top 10 in superbike. While some of that is true, Jeremy has been racing superbike for quite some time and has held number 1 plate at WSMC many times. The bike was also not stock. By the time he broke the top 10 it was by all means a superstock spec bike, which is in no way like a stock bike. The Ohlins suspension on that bike cost almost as the bike itself with enough dyno time to cost the average person well over $2000 (but Jeremy owns Lee's Cycles). Lastly to assume that anyone can take one of these and qualify for a superbike national, he's so far out of the realm of possibility that its not funny.
I do know Jeremy and although he is a privateer, he's also a top 15 AMA superbike racer, as well as a Macau GP and IOM TT and number 1 plate holder at WSMC, so he's not just "some privateer". The average fast expert racer can't run within 3-4 seconds of Jeremy's times, and the average rider can't run within 20 seconds of his times.
I believe the maturity level of the rider should determine what kind of bike they should get. I don't have a problem with someone recommending a smaller bike like an SV, however, if someone really wants the latest gsxr-1 million, so be it. This is a free country.
I've raced everything from small bikes (SV) to big bikes (ZX-10R) and have found myself right back in the 600 class because I love the close racing, and the control of the bike without all of the wheelspin. Small bikes will teach you corner speed and how to push the front. Big bikes will teach you how to deal with spin and big corner entrance speed.
Patience and maturity is the key and you can't regulate that.
There's a huge difference between the track and the street. That column was not about racing, but about why 600cc+ sportbikes are not good beginner bikes for the riding on the
street
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:57 am
by Dragonhawk
I thought all new riders were Valentino Rossi. They can ride GSXR-1000s and "respect the bike" and not take the MSF because "their buddy gave them some tips" and the buddy has been riding for a whole year already. And that's like totally a long time.
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:35 am
by hi-side
He states that a new rider on a 600 who doesn't end up dead is the exception. That is not true and there are no stats to back that up.
His generalizations are just that and as true as saying that all women belong in the kitchen... not that i'm saying that, but he lumps every 600 rider in the same categories.
I would have a hard time listening to any expert 250R rider.
Not everyone has to start on a 250, again this is a free country.
And the same skills that keep you upright at the track do the same for you on the street. The track is a safe place to hone those skills without the distractions of minivans and cellphone idiots.
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:11 pm
by Nalian
hi-side wrote:I would have a hard time listening to any expert 250R rider.
Uhh, why?
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:19 pm
by storysunfolding
Nalian wrote:hi-side wrote:I would have a hard time listening to any expert 250R rider.
Uhh, why?
I think the point that he's trying to make is that the guy whose only experience is on a ninja 50 rider can tell you quite a bit about a 250cc motorcycle but doesn't know much of anything about a 600cc sport bike.
It's like a high schooler trying to tell a baby boomer what it was like to live during the 60's. He can read all he wants about it but he wasn't there.
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:39 pm
by RZG
I just finished and passed my MSF course 2 weeks ago. The rider coach put me on a nighthawk 250, he thought I would be more comfortable on it. Well im sure I was "more" comfortable on it instead of the 125's they also had, but I was anything but comfortable (in any sense of the word).
I don’t know how a nighthawk compares to a ninja250, but if it’s anything like it, I know I don’t want that as my first bike, second bike etc... I will be in hell. I’m 6'3" and pushing 300lb's.
As far as power is concerned, the nighthawk didn’t feel so week to me. I know that’s probably going to change within the next year or two. On the other hand I never felt out of control. What I mean by that is it didn’t surprise me, which I suppose is a good thing. I could roll on full throttle and predict the kind of power I was going to feel.
Hence my dilemma. I had every intention of getting a 250 before the MSF class. But now I’m torn. I want to be comfortable and ride a bike that’s not going to throw me any curve balls while I learn.
Any suggestions?
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:46 pm
by Dragonhawk
RZG wrote:Hence my dilemma. I had every intention of getting a 250 before the MSF class. But now I’m torn. I want to be comfortable and ride a bike that’s not going to throw me any curve balls while I learn.
Any suggestions?
Suzuki Boulevard S40 - Cruiser $4400
Kawasaki Ninja 250 - Standard $3000
Honda Shadow VLX 650cc - Cruiser $5400
Yamaha V Star Classic 650cc - Cruiser $6000
Yamaha V Star Custom 650cc - Cruiser $5800
Moto Guzzi Nevada 750 - Standard $9000
Moto Guzzi Breva V750 IE - Standard $8500
BMW F 650 CS - Standard $7900
Kawasaki Ninja 500 - Sportbike $5100
Honda Shadow Sabre - Cruiser $8600
Suzuki GS500F - Sportbike $5200
Harley Davidson Sportster - Cruiser $6600
Triumph Scrambler - Standard $8000
Suzuki Boulevard M50 - Cruiser $6800
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:55 pm
by RZG
right on. Thanks buddy.
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:48 pm
by Nalian
storysunfolding wrote:Nalian wrote:hi-side wrote:I would have a hard time listening to any expert 250R rider.
Uhh, why?
I think the point that he's trying to make is that the guy whose only experience is on a ninja 50 rider can tell you quite a bit about a 250cc motorcycle but doesn't know much of anything about a 600cc sport bike.
It's like a high schooler trying to tell a baby boomer what it was like to live during the 60's. He can read all he wants about it but he wasn't there.
Maybe, but that sure as "poo poo" isn't what he said.
Otherwise I agree with ZooTech (omg what is this world coming to!).