Should you take small children as passengers - Split thread

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ofblong · #11 Unread post by **ofblong** » Fri May 11, 2007 4:26 am

Nibblet99 wrote:Ok, I've split the threads as best I could. Hopefully we can have 2 sensible discussions now. This one has a lot of potential for flaming, but thought its worth the discussion anyway

thanks. Everyone has an opinion about whats right and wrong. Like I said above I have no problem allowing my children to ride with me providing I can give them as safe a ride as possible which means touching the foot pegs and having right gear on.

#12 Unread post by **t_bonee** » Fri May 11, 2007 1:14 pm

I take my 8 year old daughter for rides around for 5 or 10 minutes rides. I feel it's perfectly fine. I don't take my 5 year old son yet. He can't reach the pegs. That's the rule. My daughter loves it. My son wants to ride MX. When he can ride a bike without training wheels we'll get him a little dirt bike.

Yes there is risk, my wife and I have discussed it. We have explained the dangers of riding to the children. We've all agreed that the 5 to 10 minute rides and a dirt bike are OK.

Sev · #13 Unread post by **Sev** » Fri May 11, 2007 4:23 pm

YES
YES THEY SHOULD.

THE SMALLER THE BETTER!

Shorts · #14 Unread post by **Shorts** » Sat May 12, 2007 4:01 am

If you don't want your kids riding, then by all means make them hate it like all the other sheeple in the world.

Shadow, you're a bad example, "do as I say, not as I do", if you ride but completely discourage them to ride. How about you educate them fully on the subject matter first? At the very least, give them the tools to make a decision if they ever should need to. You have such an opportunity to teach and mentor but you're totally blowing it.

Its not all about being a hero. How about you be a dad, a teacher, a mentor, an example. If all you care about is being a hero, then don't worry, you won't have long before puberty hits and you won't be a blip on the map as far as heros go.

#15 Unread post by **dr_bar** » Sat May 12, 2007 11:44 am

I smell a troll....

13 posts as of this one, and all Shadow77 has done is to insult and belittle those of us that love this sport and want to share.

Hockey is a brutal sport that has killed and or permanently injured hundreds of kids, ban the sport?

How about swimming? Kids get paralysed all the time for stupid accidents in pools, ban that too?

My brother and his bicycle got dragged 60 feet under a drunk drivers car, maybe kids should stay off of bicycles as well.

There are risks in EVERYTHING you do.

So build your bubble and climb into it...

ofblong · #16 Unread post by **ofblong** » Sat May 12, 2007 12:03 pm

dr_bar wrote:I smell a troll....

13 posts as of this one, and all Shadow77 has done is to insult and belittle those of us that love this sport and want to share.

Hockey is a brutal sport that has killed and or permanently injured hundreds of kids, ban the sport?

How about swimming? Kids get paralysed all the time for stupid accidents in pools, ban that too?

My brother and his bicycle got dragged 60 feet under a drunk drivers car, maybe kids should stay off of bicycles as well.

There are risks in EVERYTHING you do.

So build your bubble and climb into it...

whats funny is I can find deaths all over the internet related to children on bicycles but I cant find a single one related to motorcycles. I am sure its happened but I cant find any instance anywhere. Heck aparently there were 130 children that died riding a bicycle last year in michigan.

Shadow77 · #17 Unread post by **Shadow77** » Sun May 13, 2007 8:29 am

Nalian wrote:
Shadow77 wrote:
t_bonee wrote:I

Yes there is risk, my wife and I have discussed it. We have explained the dangers of riding to the children.
Well then, That should relieve you both!
I've seen you make a lot of assertions, Shadow77, but I haven't seen you provide any statistics or data to back up your claim. I'm curious (honestly) as to where the view towards this comes from. You've stated that "As is usual when people refuse to see reality they come up with stretches and analogies that have little to do with the real level of risk." but then provided no information on said risk/reality. No offense but I would like a little more than some random guy on the internet's opinion..like a study or report of some sort.

Common sense. IF you don't know the statistics of motorcycle safety vs automobile safety already....I understand why you endanger your children.

Flesher · #18 Unread post by **Flesher** » Sun May 13, 2007 3:43 pm

Past experiences count for sure. As a child of 5 or 6 I still remember sitting in front of my father hugging the gas tank and holding on to the middle of the bars as he took me for rides where I begged him to lean more (I am sure it wasen't a lot of lean but it felt like it), and gasp, by today's standards he was a complete lunatic 'cause neither of us had helmets, only sunglasses. But this was a time when kids played around in the back of station wagons on family trips, no belts, no seats, nothing. Likewise I remember long rides on the back of my uncle's motorcycle. These are pleasant memories.

I'm not saying it was right or wrong, it just was. Personally I think today too many risks in all areas are overplayed, an entire generation of scared people is the result. To me it's worse to live scared and perceive yourself to be safe then to know there are some risks but taking active measures to mitigate the risks and just plain live.

BTW, we might be on to a new discovery for motorcycle training; If it turns out that there really are very few accidents while having children as passengers on bikes, then all motorcyclists should be instructed to ride like you have one of your children with you and presto, skills magically improve

ofblong · #19 Unread post by **ofblong** » Sun May 13, 2007 5:21 pm

Flesher wrote:Past experiences count for sure. As a child of 5 or 6 I still remember sitting in front of my father hugging the gas tank and holding on to the middle of the bars as he took me for rides where I begged him to lean more (I am sure it wasen't a lot of lean but it felt like it), and gasp, by today's standards he was a complete lunatic 'cause neither of us had helmets, only sunglasses. But this was a time when kids played around in the back of station wagons on family trips, no belts, no seats, nothing. Likewise I remember long rides on the back of my uncle's motorcycle. These are pleasant memories.

I'm not saying it was right or wrong, it just was. Personally I think today too many risks in all areas are overplayed, an entire generation of scared people is the result. To me it's worse to live scared and perceive yourself to be safe then to know there are some risks but taking active measures to mitigate the risks and just plain live.

BTW, we might be on to a new discovery for motorcycle training; If it turns out that there really are very few accidents while having children as passengers on bikes, then all motorcyclists should be instructed to ride like you have one of your children with you and presto, skills magically improve

I can tell you for a fact I drive much more carefully and alertedly when my son is riding with me. He took one of his hands off of me and I immediatly pulled over (well ok at the closest safe spot) and told him do it again and no more riding. Two hands on me at all times or no riding.

I also agree about the risks. I was a hero before I started taking my son on short trips. Now im a father who is giving my children something fun to do. whats a life lived if you dont get to experience fun things (that may even be dangerous *gasp*) be it your 5 years old (cant really say newborn cause they havent a clue at that age about stuff like this) or your 90 years old? I would say its a pretty dull one. Shadow what do you do with your kids thats not "what everyone else is doing"? Anything at all? I am sorry but I refuse to conform to societies "way of thinking" in everything I do. I am sure I do in some instances but not in everything.

I agree, however, with some people that if they cant touch the pegs and dont have proper gear they cant ride. They cant touch the pegs that means they have a great chance of "sliding" off if the lean has to be a huge lean.

Loonette · #20 Unread post by **Loonette** » Mon May 14, 2007 4:44 am

Not sure if I want to step into this, but I'll take my chances.

1. IN A HUGE EFFORT AS TO NOT APPEAR THAT I'M TAKING SIDES, I feel I need to make one point. As I've mentioned in the past, statistics always rub me the wrong way. They are rarely representative of the real world. I would imagine that the reason we don't find a lot of statistics on children being involved in motorcycle crashes/injuries/deaths would be because very few children are actually on the back of bikes. Think about it - you might see a kid once in awhile, but compared to how many adults... If the motorcyclists who were involved in crashes (and the rate of crashes rises with the rise of the number of riders) did have a child on the back, then I think it's fair to say that the child would also incur some sort of injury. In my 3 1/2 years of riding, I think I've spotted maybe less than 10 child passengers on bikes - compared to the thousands of adult riders. However, more than 1/2 of the bicycles I see on the road are being operated by children. Just a thought.

Now then... for those of you without kids, you have no idea how heart wrenching it can be to make decisions on behalf of someone else. There are decisions that must be made, and they are not pleasant. We did not vaccinate our kids, nor did we circumcise our son, and to this day people still will ask of us "don't you realize what risks you've created for your child?". Those decisions had to be made at the time, and so we did our research (lots and lots of research - it's overwhelming) and made the decisions that we felt in our heart were the best.

I did not have my daughter's ears pierced at birth. It's popular to do so, but my feeling was... it's cosmetic, and if she wants to have it done, she can ask for it. She asked when she was five years old, so off we went, and the fact that she chose to have it done made it that more special of a "rite of passage" for her (and for me as well).

Being a passenger on a motorcycle is not something that I must choose for my kids. We don't encourage them to ride, but we have mentioned to them that we think it would be fun to go on family rides together someday. Since they do not show a burning desire to ride, we do not push the issue.

If one of them were to ask to go for a ride, yes, we would do it. The same way that we weigh out risk in our life is the same way we teach our kids to weigh out risks in their lives. Now that our kids are starting to be more independent, it really can be nerve shattering. If you become focused on all the "what ifs" out there, it could be paralyzing.

As for the age thing... for me my kids would have to be old enough (9 or 10) for me to believe that they can fully understand "risks". I suppose that that age can vary from child to child. At this point (our kids are 9 & 11), if they really wanted to go for a ride, we would gear them up, practice what they've already heard us talk about to them, and then go. If something bad happened, it would kill me inside - but to no more or no less of a degree than if they were to suffer from any of life's many other risks.

Loonette