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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:40 am
by MZ33
Is there any way to try to keep the dialogue going while also maintaining that "we are very firmly against this and have already explained why a few hundred times."?
Something like:
Okay, you have this bike that, frankly is too much for you. But you have it. We can go back and forth all day long about your choice. We will never tell you that you made a good choice. However, stay in touch with us about problems it may cause you, or confusion you have with handling, and we will let you know, as best we can from our perspective and your limited experience, what is happening and why. And how we, as experienced riders, would respond to that problem were it us. We don't have a lot of confidence that you will magically be able to become an experienced rider after a few posts, but we will do the best we can to help you out. And remember, there is no shame in changing to another bike, should you decide yours is too much too soon.
Did we mention that we wish you had a different bike?
And then, having said all of that up front, the focus can be on specific experiences the rider is having. And "just the facts", neither condemning nor encouraging. For instance: "Don't like the idea you were up to 60 mph in a 35 mph zone and didn't even realize it. Getting caught up in the moment can be great, but it can also trick you into riding above your abilities." Rather than: "You JACKA**, I hope the cops take your money and your license!!" Which may be true, but will likely cause the person in question to stop hearing you.
Snippets of wisdom are better than none. This way, maybe something helpful will get through. There is another thing. If you alienate someone, it is that much harder for them to admit their mistake and try to correct it.
On the other hand, look at what you all accomplished with Power! He wanted a 1300 'busa. You saved at least one life, IMO.
~~MZ
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:16 am
by Skier
jstark47 wrote:But I also think we on TMW can come down kinda hard on noobs sometimes. Not pointing fingers, I've been guilty of it too. Just sayin'
It's tough love for fellow riders.

Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:38 am
by Brackstone
Yeah I guess we could be scaring newbies away. It'd be interesting to know though! I think I might start making a list in April call it the "600cc wannabe" it rhymes too!
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:13 am
by Big B
i don't think we come down too hard on newb's right away, it's normally after they continually ignore the advice they asked for, and it' plain they're either trolls or looking for reaffirmation that it gets a bit harsh. then all we've got is another motof150 or verm if either catagory stays around.
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:27 am
by MZ33
Maybe a forum just for newbs that are stuck on sportbikes? "Future Organ Donors" or "Newbs Crazy for Sportbikes" (emphasis on Crazy)
I'm a newb myself, and I have to say that by & large you all are a mighty patient group of advisors. We all seem to ask the same questions: how big a bike? What about this one? What kind of equipment?
But when it gets to the newbs vying for sport bikes, your patience seems to run out a lot faster.
Oh, and I do have a question:
What's a troll & what's a squid?
Thanks.

Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:37 am
by Pittance
I'd recommend a sticky that only deals with discussion between people who have/or will be buying way above their skill level. That way the experienced riders can give them as many tips to be safe as possible on their crotch rocket.
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:40 am
by Brackstone
MZ33 wrote:Maybe a forum just for newbs that are stuck on sportbikes? "Future Organ Donors" or "Newbs Crazy for Sportbikes" (emphasis on Crazy)
I'm a newb myself, and I have to say that by & large you all are a mighty patient group of advisors. We all seem to ask the same questions: how big a bike? What about this one? What kind of equipment?
But when it gets to the newbs vying for sport bikes, your patience seems to run out a lot faster.
Oh, and I do have a question:
What's a troll & what's a squid?
Thanks.

A troll is someone who "trolls" on forums. Basically a person mostly whose existence is to cause trouble and create chaos but still stay within the boundaries of the rules. This personal usually has a malicious intent.
A Squid is someone who is new to motorcycling and doesn't wear proper gear or thinks they can pop wheelies all over the place. You can also call them Organ Donors
Long Discovery channel version of "Trolls and their behavior" below:
Malicious Troll:
Will always start threads like "LOL Harley Riders (video of guy dropping his harley)
Then in the body of the thread proceed to say that Harley Riders have no control over their bikes and talk about how sport bike riders are so much better because they can do "stuntz" and whatever.
OR
Everytime a Harley vs. X other American chooper thread comes up they'll come in and just spout off non-sense. Only a fool would think a X-American bike is better than a Harley, you want to waste your money in that piece of garbage then go ahead, I'll ride my Harley.
Note the "Piece of Garbage" and calling the other person a "fool". That's how you can tell a troll.
A regular person would've said "I appreciate your stance however I disagree, I have X-American bike and I've been riding one for 5 years and blah blah blah."
Non-malicious troll:
IE We had this guy who put a "Rev Limiter" on a 600cc sport bike. He said he was "GREAT" for two weeks but the problem was everytime another newbie posted a "I want a 600cc sportbike" thread he would reply to it "I have a 600cc sportbike and it's GREAT don't let anyone tell you otherwise blah blah blah!" Meanwhile he'd leave out things like it's limited to like 30hp and he'd only been riding it for under a month.
The guy wasn't intentionally being malicious but he was still doing a lot of damage and disrupting the community cause there would be tons of posts arguing with this person again and it keeps coming back.
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:41 am
by Big B
if it seems like impatience when dealing with new riders wanting sportbikes, look back in the thread archive and read all the threads with titles like hayabusa-good first bike? or gsxr600 for first bike. it gets old and frustrating real quick when you constantly see new threads with the same tired old subject, and when you get the same attitude from the posters of the thread.
troll
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29
or do a search and read any post ever written by motof150
squid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squid_%28motorcycle%29
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:45 am
by Big B
Pittance wrote:I'd recommend a sticky that only deals with discussion between people who have/or will be buying way above their skill level. That way the experienced riders can give them as many tips to be safe as possible on their crotch rocket.
there is a sticky like that already the "want a 600cc sportbike? read this!" one
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:58 am
by Pittance
Big B wrote:Pittance wrote:I'd recommend a sticky that only deals with discussion between people who have/or will be buying way above their skill level. That way the experienced riders can give them as many tips to be safe as possible on their crotch rocket.
there is a sticky like that already the "want a 600cc sportbike? read this!" one
Yeah, but that mostly tells you not to buy one. Doesnt offer any help to those who find this site after buying a new GSXR. They may have realized they are in over their heads, but are too stubborn or whatever to size down. They need tips on how to ride a twitchy bike as safely as possible, reminders about gear, etc.