Total Motorcycle Community Forums

Skier wrote:
Code's quote is a generalization about rear brake accidents. Crash after crash comes from the rider over applying the rear and under applying the front brake. Practice mitigates or eliminates this as a crash factor.

What Code is saying is in a polite way, that the majority of riders have nothing to gain by using the rear in a panic and everything to lose.

I don't buy an experienced, practiced rider will have increased odds of crashing due to a locked rear tire.

That said, if you don't practice braking often and are on a motorcycle that transfers lots of weight forward and your tires are warm and sticky, front-only is acceptable.

Forgetting the rear brake on a cruiser or touring bike, or any bike two-up, is a silly notion.

Is it possible the dynamics of rear braking differ quite a bit between a sportbike and a cruiser? And what Code was talking about mostly applies to sportbikes? There's such a wide variety in frame geometry and rear brake effectiveness among various types of bikes, I'm always amazed that we manage to have these "one answer fits all" discussions about rear braking.

The main problem that folks have in hard braking is overcoming the fact that your leg muscles are much stronger than your hand muscles. So, naturally, you're gonna apply more pressure on the brake pedal than you can apply on the front lever if you're reacting quickly.

It makes some sense to concentrate on using only the front brake, BUT if you really need to stop quickly you should use both brakes.

Quite the issue.

Perhaps focusing on applying MORE front brake pressure will "fix" the TOO MUCH rear brake problem.

P

I think that in a hard stop that approximates what you have practiced, you can replicate what you have trained to do in your practice sessions, i.e. come to a stop withough locking front or rear.

Consider that the harder the stop the lighter the rear becomes, and the same pressure on the rear brake that is just perfect in practice sessions becomes enough to break the rear loose with more intense front brake. Muscle memory being what it is, you will tend to use the pressure you practiced using. So chances are good that you will only be able to brake without locking your tires at speeds you have practiced, and at the same intensity of front brake.

I agree that practice is what is needed, but you must practice at different speeds while progressively squeezing harder on the front and lighter on the back, and you must do this at speeds you are most likely to need it. Of course this kind of practice carries its own risk, so you have to weigh the risk vs. benefit.

The reality is that in a real hard brake situation you will squeeze the front harder than you have ever practiced, and even if you intend to use only the front brake, you are likely to stomp on the rear. Ask me how I know this...

Just a question -- but do anti-lock brakes come into play here?

A BMW friend of mine borrowed another friend's Ducati. (My friend's BMW has ABS, but the Ducati did not.) While screaming around a curve at 90mph, he saw a cop shooting radar. He panicked and slammed on the front brake. The front tire locked up and the bike flipped head-over-heels.

So when deciding whether to emphasize the front brake or the rear in an emergency stop -- does it make a difference if your bike has ABS?

clutch wrote:Just a question -- but do anti-lock brakes come into play here?

A BMW friend of mine borrowed another friend's Ducati. (My friend's BMW has ABS, but the Ducati did not.) While screaming around a curve at 90mph, he saw a cop shooting radar. He panicked and slammed on the front brake. The front tire locked up and the bike flipped head-over-heels.

So when deciding whether to emphasize the front brake or the rear in an emergency stop -- does it make a difference if your bike has ABS?

It is always good to know how your bike will handle - to the extent it is possible to practice. ABS is supposed to deal with/eliminate the likelihood of skidding. But, in practice, the system's response will vary depending on road surface. A washboard surface in particular can play havoc with ABS.

P

The main problem that folks have in hard braking is overcoming the fact that your leg muscles are much stronger than your hand muscles. So, naturally, you're gonna apply more pressure on the brake pedal than you can apply on the front lever if you're reacting quickly.

I agree with that whole-heartedly...I read this post this morning before going to work, then, coming around the beltway, I ended up having to use those braking skills. Someone just slammed on their brakes in front of me, making me use mine. Of course, I ended up locking the rear brake from stomping on it, but at least my instinct was to hold it down once it got locked. It fishtailed a little, but I was able to control it. I think I was going about 25-30 mph before stopping.

I think it's hard to fight that instinct to push hard on the rear brake, especially when you have no time to think about it. My issue would be that even if I did practice this, I'm not sure what I'd do in an emergency. Maybe this is just one of those "after x years you just do it naturally" things?

I'm loving this topic.

I bought an 800cc (M50) 2 weeks after the MSF. I immediately started practicing sudden stops. I started at getting the bike up to 20mph and bringing it to a stop. Next move was between 25-30mph. I have practiced a few stops from about 33mph. As I become more familiar with the bike I will venture with stopping between 40-45mph.

I definitely find myself using predominately the front brake. Hopefully my muscle memory is setting in!