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Rogero wrote:Couple of follow-on questions...

I got my first ever bike a couple of weeks ago. I was riding 5-10 miles every day to build up some comfort level. Then after a week tried to do a u-turn on a country road. Ended up on my butt again with some scrapes on my bike. Arhggh!!!!

Question 1: Obviously one week in was too early for slow speeding. When would I be better trying it? Or maybe now is the right time, but I should start with bigger circles in a large parking lot or something?

Question 2: this was the second time where I got going too slowly and tipped over. I have a Harley Softail (aka heavy am-fm). Anyone have any tips on how not to go down once a tip over starts? In both cases I got the bike stopped. In the first, the shock of falling sort of froze me and I just went down. The second time I felt it coming and tried to not go over but the bike is so heavy I couldn't hold it. Then I got my arm down to try to prevent the bike from hitting. Right - holding 800 lbs falling with my arms. Wailed my arm on the concrete instead... Thought I might have broken it. Obviously the wrong strategy! But what's the right one?

This is why so many people on this forum support starting off with a smaller motorcycle.

I won't speak for others, but for me, it was more important to be proficient at slow speed maneuvers than most things. Any chump can get on a bike and go straight. But your slow speed riding is very important.

Once a tip starts, depending on your seating position, you can use your legs and hips to prevent the fall. Don't try to use your arms. You can hurt all kinds of things (as you found out) like that, including your back.

There was one instance in which I was making a u-turn on a local road a few days after I got my bike. I screwed up and was real close to dropping it, but instead I gave it a little more gas and whaddya know, she stayed up! That was my biggest problem in the BRC, actually, making tight u-turns. I never gave it enough throttle. So if you feel yourself tipping over a big, give it a wee bit more gas, but keep that rear brake covered so you can tighten up the turn a bit.

Definitely spend a lot of time in the parking lot. I got my bike in January. I weight about 120lbs, 130 on a good day. I am admittedly scrawny, no insulation at all. After work, I would ride down to the local Target (shifts ended around 2am, so it was terribly cold) and just spend time weaving in and out of the parking spaces, practicing emergency stops, etc. Not only is it good to practice those skills, it's good time to "bond" with your bike. You get a much better feel for how your motorcycle behaves when you dedicate that sort of time to slow speed riding.

Rogero wrote:Or maybe now is the right time, but I should start with bigger circles in a large parking lot or something?

+1
Bigger circles. You have to counterweight at slow speeds - heavily weight the outside peg, get your weight shifted off the seat to the outside, and turn your head waaayy around towards where you're going. Try to run a constant throttle setting using the clutch to control speed. Dragging the rear brake a little can help. Start with bigger circles to get a feel for the technique and the balance points, then gradually reduce the circle.

Hey Rogero - I can't speak to technique yet, i'm only about a week ahead of you, but I will say - KEEP doing it - You will notice a big shift as you get more confident on the bike and know it's limits.

I started much bigger circles - even then i had my foot down way too much, and it was a fairly big empty lot, so if i felt nervous, just added throttle and straightened up. I'm actually amazed at the difference two weeks of riding made.

one thing at a time - I also practice quick stops once a week -

i ve been lucky about not dropping the bike, but the other day was AMAZED - i'm an extra large guy (extra extra) - and the brakes on the bike were so powerful that my butt came UP OFF THE SEAT. it was fine b/c it's low enough to the ground that i just stood up and kept it balanced between my legs.

but i could see how easy it is to go over the bars. good reminder.

interestingly enough, no skid when I did that either.

-Z

well i figure i'll follow up on this thread...

Starting big and developing your skills to a smaller circle or U is the way to go. Multiple hours on the bike and two tanks of gas later, I'm finally getting the feel for being able to pull sharp u-turns (around one parking space). This took significant counterweighting.

Rogero, go to a parking lot and get a feel for the balance of the bike. Pull big circles at slow speeds where you don't have to lean the bike. You'll get a good feel for how to balance your ride. THen move to counterweighting. With the "get-to-know-your-bike" time, you'll eventually get the feel for when you're bike is about to go over or if you just need to adjust your weight...just put your foot down and support with your leg. Don't grab the front brake when your counterbalancing. If the bike does go over...get clear. Engine casings, bars and pipes can be replaced (as much as I hate saying that), but your leg can suffer significant damage if you just let the bike fall on you.

I have a little over two years under my belt on a bike with a relatively high center of gravity. I just moved to a bigger bike with an incredibly low center of gravity. I figured it'd be easier, but the size, length and probably the size of the fat rear tire of the bike has made the learning experience a whole new ball game. It took me many many hours of circle after circle...figure eight after figure eight to finally get the bike's behavior down. You'll get it. Give it time and practice practice practice. Slow speed manuevering will save your a$$ in tight situations where you have little room and little time to react.

Edit: To add, my one parking spot u turns are not from a stop and it traces along the outside of the spot, so it's probably more like 1.25 parking spot. I still have to master the whole lean your bike over at a dead stop and go. Cap'n crash makes it look easy...i am no where near doing that with my 650-700 lb bike.

ok - WHOLE new ballgame... dammit! got a mustang seat and installed it last night. got on the bike today, and its COMPLETELY different. I'm about 3 inches higher and 2 forward, and it shifted my center of gravity radically!

My seating positioning is better, especially with the backrest, but it was like i had erased the last 3 weeks of all the hard work I'd done.

grrrrumble... back to the beginning.

I almost dropped it today... was so close i partially hopped off the bike. In the lot, felt totally different, like back to zero again. even at stop lights, had a harder time pulling out and turning - where before new seat had that cold.

EVERYTHing is different now.

i had to adjust handlebars - b/c the added height made csteering really hard. then, after riding again, realized i had to adjust clutch and brake position too - plus mirrors.

im honestly not sure a cushy tushy is necessarily worth it, but i'll give it a week or two.

I know learning the bike is fun - and that feeling of confidence when you can really 'feel' it is fantastic, but I was just there, and then poof!

any advice would be welcome.

-z

zeligman wrote:ok - WHOLE new ballgame... dammit! got a mustang seat and installed it last night. got on the bike today, and its COMPLETELY different. I'm about 3 inches higher and 2 forward, and it shifted my center of gravity radically!

My seating positioning is better, especially with the backrest, but it was like i had erased the last 3 weeks of all the hard work I'd done.

grrrrumble... back to the beginning.

I almost dropped it today... was so close i partially hopped off the bike. In the lot, felt totally different, like back to zero again. even at stop lights, had a harder time pulling out and turning - where before new seat had that cold.

EVERYTHing is different now.

i had to adjust handlebars - b/c the added height made csteering really hard. then, after riding again, realized i had to adjust clutch and brake position too - plus mirrors.

im honestly not sure a cushy tushy is necessarily worth it, but i'll give it a week or two.

I know learning the bike is fun - and that feeling of confidence when you can really 'feel' it is fantastic, but I was just there, and then poof!

any advice would be welcome.

-z

Little things - even less than a seat change can make a bike feel really different.

Wearing the liners in my overpants changed my feel for my new bike completely - and I ended up dropping it twice.

I'd love to try a bunch of different bikes, but it is a little scary knowing how different one bike can be with slight mods compared to entirely different bike.

RhadamYgg

RhadamYgg wrote: Wearing the liners in my overpants changed my feel for my new bike completely - and I ended up dropping it twice.

+1

When I got my bike in the winter, I usually had 2 pairs of pants... underneath my riding pants.

On the first day of decent temperatures, I decided to just wear shorts under my riding pants. Boy, what a difference!!! It made a huge impact on my position and posture, just that half inch of layer missing.

so - it is typical then? advice ladies and gents - should i give it a few weeks?

-z

zeligman wrote:so - it is typical then? advice ladies and gents - should i give it a few weeks?

-z

Yes, give it a bit of time.

I practice slow speed maneuvers all the time. I cant believe I am just now finding this thread, pretty cool cause I love slow speed skills practice.