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Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:21 am
by Amdonim
I think the years someone has been riding can be deceptive. I think miles ridden would have a better correlation, but there's no replacement for actual practice, education and a proper mindset.
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:27 am
by koji52
Amdonim wrote:I think the years someone has been riding can be deceptive. I think miles ridden would have a better correlation, but there's no replacement for actual practice, education and a proper mindset.
Mindset is clutch for even beginning to measure "skill." Many people drag their feet 100 feet from a stop or put feet down for a u-turn, etc for 20 years just don't care to learn how to do it properly.
However, as Gunslinger said, after 20 years of riding, they must be doing something right. A "good" rider is defined differently from rider to rider.
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:04 am
by Amdonim
I don't know about your area, but most of the people in my area that claim to have been riding for multiple decades only ride a few times a month. Usually they just break it out for a nice weekend or a group ride. That's why I tend to try to stay away from group rides in my area, they're almost always packed with bad riders. The worst one had me following this lady, and everytime she would take a turn, I would end up almost eating her back tire. When I paid attention, I noticed she had her throttle closed through every single turn, and when I mentioned it, no one seemed to understand my objection.
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:29 pm
by High_Side
Amdonim wrote:That's why I tend to try to stay away from group rides in my area, they're almost always packed with bad riders. The worst one had me following this lady, and everytime she would take a turn, I would end up almost eating her back tire. When I paid attention, I noticed she had her throttle closed through every single turn, and when I mentioned it, no one seemed to understand my objection.
Not trying to be a dick here ( as most TMW'ers will attest, it comes naturally), but if you are almost "eating her tire" this is more your problem than hers. She is riding at her level, you are following too close. She might not have the skills to ride faster, but she is riding within her limits which is step #1 to being a good rider.....
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:12 am
by storysunfolding
I see a lot of my students leave the BRC and think they know everything about motorcycling. I do everything I can to dissuade them but very few ever make it back for an advanced course. Sadly even those that do come back don't practice what they've learned. Rarely do I have students in advanced courses have the proficiency they had in the brc!
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:24 am
by tymanthius
storysunfolding wrote:I see a lot of my students leave the BRC and think they know everything about motorcycling. I do everything I can to dissuade them but very few ever make it back for an advanced course. Sadly even those that do come back don't practice what they've learned. Rarely do I have students in advanced courses have the proficiency they had in the brc!
I'm one of those. I AM planning on going to an advanced course, but life keeps happening.
But I don't practice enough, and I know it. I have a cpl of friends who ride as commuters, but I can't get them to PRACTICE with me. And I get bored doing it alone. :/ Although I am getting to know a few others, so that might change.
Any one have recommendations on how to make practice more doable for those of us who always have that 'one more thing that needs to be done' before we can go play?
On the upside, I ride weekly, although more as errands than fun rides. And I TRY to keep up with what I should do. Been getting much better at leaning with the bike in turns. I wasn't leaning far enough, and it was really affecting my ability to take a turn.
Re: Does time riding equal proficiency?
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:24 am
by Lion_Lady
Flesher wrote:Since I wasn't overly interested in some of the bikes I was riding, I had lot's of time to observe other riders and chat with them afterwards. I noticed one rider consistently turning wide on every right hander, another put his leg out 100ft. before every intersection where a stop had to be made.
One woman was just picture perfect in everything she did, graceful in accelaration and smooth in turns (and fast where they opened it up briefly) total control, many riders fell somewhere in between, still others were proficient albeit somewhat shakey at slow speeds.
I assumed that the "good" riders must be those that had been riding a long time, and the poorer riders those new to it. There definetly was some correlation. But I was surprised when I engaged some of these people in conversation. The man going wide on turns had been riding for 15 years, the guy putting his leg out- over 25 years, the woman with grace and speed? 3 years.
The question is; do you believe that experience alone will or has turned you into a "good" rider, or does it take something more than that?
I suspect that the key issue is HOW those riders learned. Probably more relevant than how long they'd been riding. The guys who'd been riding for 10+ years may well have taught themselves (or learned from friends, etc) and as a result didn't learn good technique. The lady who'd been riding for 3 years no doubt took the MSF Basic Riders Course as a total motorcycle virgin and as a result soaked up everything that was given. I'd be willing to bet that she's even taken an ERC.
P
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:01 pm
by zeligman
tymanthius wrote:storysunfolding wrote:I see a lot of my students leave the BRC and think they know everything about motorcycling. I do everything I can to dissuade them but very few ever make it back for an advanced course. Sadly even those that do come back don't practice what they've learned. Rarely do I have students in advanced courses have the proficiency they had in the brc!
But I don't practice enough, and I know it. I have a cpl of friends who ride as commuters, but I can't get them to PRACTICE with me. And I get bored doing it alone.
I'd love to have the local MSF BRC course run an in-between class, both on the course and maybe even on the road. I contacted my BRC place, and asked about additional lessons (they offer 1 on 1's as well) and I was told sure, they could do it, but they don't know what more they could teach me then they already have...
I don't think im ready for the advanced course yet - im definitely inbetween... and that's probably the hardest place to be. any thoughts?
im still looking for a 'riding buddy' to practice with...
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:34 pm
by storysunfolding
Depends where you live. We're getting ramped up to start the MSF on road course next year. Starts with a parking lot then goes onto the road.
The Experienced part of the Experienced Rider Course is a misnomer though. It's designed to be taken a week to a month after the BRC. Real advanced courses are events like a Total Control or Stayin Safe class.
I'm rather shocked that a course would say there's not much else to teach after the BRC. It's the BASIC ridercourse for a reason which is obviously that it only teaches the lower level introductory stuff.
Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:33 am
by RhadamYgg
I just wish I had a beater of a bike in addition to my good bike to really screw around on and do figure 8's and drop it and not care. As long as I don't hurt myself and the bike still runs... It is all good.
RhadamYgg