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Grey Thumper wrote:

csspostal wrote:Any Motorcycle company that doesn't realize there is a market for small cc bikes at a resonable prices. Indian, Harley and Victory could end up like GM and Chrysler.

Do small displacement bikes sell in the US? I always had the impression that the avaiability of models with ccs of, say, 400 and below, was pretty limited. I checked out a recent What Bike? and it's amazing how many small cc bikes are distributed in the UK.

No because no tier licensing in the US. Any unskilled moron can go out and get a monster cruiser bike, and they usually do.

No because no tier licensing in the US. Any unskilled moron can go out and get a monster cruiser bike, and they usually do.

Grey Thumper wrote:

csspostal wrote:Any Motorcycle company that doesn't realize there is a market for small cc bikes at a resonable prices. Indian, Harley and Victory could end up like GM and Chrysler.

Do small displacement bikes sell in the US? I always had the impression that the avaiability of models with ccs of, say, 400 and below, was pretty limited. I checked out a recent What Bike? and it's amazing how many small cc bikes are distributed in the UK.

No because no tier licensing in the US. Any unskilled moron can go out and get a monster cruiser bike, and they usually do.


That is the truth. Not that i am for more restrictions but most people do not realize that 400-600 cc is more than most people need.

Well H-D will stagger because they refuse to make affordable bikes that have better than 50 year old technology in most of its makeup but sadly I think they are to entrenched to fail. They do own MV Augusta and they will be next to close they closed Buell after not only intorducing new models they also had a great racing season as well I would rather have seen the 1125 in more superbike and with the barracuda varience .
The Hyosung will crap out as well they are now selling motors to ATK and also Fisher They also make the sv 650 motor for Suzuki so they will probably concentrate on motors in this economy. Just what I think though no cocncreate stuff hear

BRUMBEAR wrote:Well H-D will stagger because they refuse to make affordable bikes that have better than 50 year old technology

And what exactly is this "50 year old technology" you are referring to?

Wasn't Harley the first Manufacturer to have EFI standard on all models?

All of it the only reason they have FI is because of modern emissions

But I digress where would we be without 45 degree, pushrod , primary drive to transmission, single disk front brake 700lb chrome cow with 58 hp at the crank for a mere $18,000 US. I have owned Harley's and still do but facts are facts they are not the most tech savy machines in the world for the money hell a 45 degree twin was built because it fit into a bicycle frame, and people are starting to notice.

BRUMBEAR wrote:But I digress where would we be without 45 degree, pushrod , primary drive to transmission, single disk front brake 700lb chrome cow with 58 hp at the crank for a mere $18,000 US. I have owned Harley's and still do but facts are facts they are not the most tech savy machines in the world for the money hell a 45 degree twin was built because it fit into a bicycle frame, and people are starting to notice.

Yeah, the hydraulic lifters (no valve adjustments ever), electronic ignition, fuel injection, digital dash, fly by wire throttle, twin Brembo front disc brakes, Brembo rear disc brake, maintenance free belt drive and rear air suspension are all throwbacks to the 50's. Riiiiight.

Gummiente wrote:

BRUMBEAR wrote:But I digress where would we be without 45 degree, pushrod , primary drive to transmission, single disk front brake 700lb chrome cow with 58 hp at the crank for a mere $18,000 US. I have owned Harley's and still do but facts are facts they are not the most tech savy machines in the world for the money hell a 45 degree twin was built because it fit into a bicycle frame, and people are starting to notice.

Yeah, the hydraulic lifters (no valve adjustments ever), electronic ignition, fuel injection, digital dash, fly by wire throttle, twin Brembo front disc brakes, Brembo rear disc brake, maintenance free belt drive and rear air suspension are all throwbacks to the 50's. Riiiiight.

Gummiente, not to be a tool, but a lot of that stuff is indeed 1950s(and earlier) technology, like hydraulic valves, fuel injection, belt drive, & air suspension.

Hydraulic valves are hardly a high tech item. Also it can only be used in low performance low revving motorcycle engines. As you know, it will pump up at high rpms so it cannot be used in most of today's high rpm high performance motorcycles.

Brembo is just a company. It does not mean it is high tech. They can make cr@p just as easily as great stuff like the monobloc. I am generally not a fan of Brembos and feel they are one of the most overrated manufacturers out there. Their mystique comes from their ties to Porsches. Actually the Brembos on my BMW are cr@p, as most of my experience with them has been. I do admit the ones on my Hypermotard are very nice.

As for fuel injection, really the main reason why manufacturer use them is to meet EPA standards. In fairness to Harley, a large air cooled twin is much harder to meet these standards than with a liquid cooled inline four. This is probably the only reason, why HD went FI across the line before others.

I know we had this discussion before but the fact of the matter is, Harley engines are outdated old technology. There really is no way to deny this. Even Harley would admit that. That being said, all this is intentional and by design. They do this by choice. Not because they don't have the technology to do otherwise. Despite its limitation they stick with the 45 degree angle because they(and their customers) feel it is the most aesthetically pleasing to the eye. It is also tradition and what everyone identifies HD with. They stick with the huge pistons that rise up and down together instead of being offset because it produces that distinctive sound, vibration, and feel. They still use pushrods because those two tubes in front of the jugs look so cool. This is what their current customers want and that is what they give them. The relative sales failure of the VRod proves that.

I don't want to be a troll so I will say this and won't comment on this thread anylonger for 24K you might get into the 21st century you get that technology and more for less then 8K from any other manufacturer. I will take my xb12ss Buell over any Chrome cow anyday and it pails in comparison to my 1125CR either one of them blow away the Dyna glide and xr 1200 so badly its not even fair, Thats just Buell move to Ducati or Triumph never mind the Japomese machines. I don't like what Harley is doing with the company the CEO doesn't know crap about motorcycles and they are heading IMHO to the old AMF days .
But that is not what this thread is about I stated they would stagger they will not fall.