Total Motorcycle Community Forums

I just re-read your thread, and I don't see you asking for opinions of what exactly happened. That makes me glad, since I couldn't possibly tell you. I can, however piggyback on Zootech's advice on following distance, for future reference. Many riders don't learn what he told you...ever. Your experience will help you learn it. Here's how I see it. When I total 695 pounds, and none of that is metal skin, I don't want to be surrounded by several tons of steel operated by four or five different people, all with their own idea of who has the right of way. It's always great to find a little place you can call your own space in traffic. It is possible to open the space in front of you by slowing slightly then open the space behind you by accelerating slightly...lather, rinse, repeat. You can also accelerate to an open spot then do the same thing. I know it's alot of maneuvering, but this is traffic we're talking about, not pleasure riding. It's work to stay safe, and I wholeheartedly agree with the following advice Zootech gave. Again, I have no opinion whatsoever on how the front end folded in, other than your own "rider error" speculation. If following distance played into that, you'll have to sort that out yourself, and I'm sure you will.

It does sound like ONE of the culprits was not enough space. I know MSF teaches a bigger barrier than that. We'll never know if there was oil on the road, but if you weren't so close you wouldn't have had to break so hard or might have been able to find an escape route. Anyway, it sounds like good riding to have avoided worse injury. I'm very glad you are ok and I wish you the best at getting back on the road (with two wheels) quickly.

Yeah, again, crash or no crash a 2-second gap is the MINIMUM recommended by the MSF and the License Bureau. However, considering he was in 70mph rush-hour traffic (been there, done that...many times!) suddenly the 2-second minimum isn't enough. You have to ride like every car on the road WANTS TO KILL YOU! Freeways are designed in such a way that you should never have a need to brake in the first place. All of your braking is supposed to take place on those nice, convenient "landing strips" they call off-ramps. However, during rush-hour, every cell-phone using, nancy-boy moron is racing to get home and forgets how to properly merge and how to operate his turn signals. So now you have 70mph traffic coming to sudden stand-stills for seemingly no reason (the ripple effect caused by one of these idiots about five minutes before you arrive). To allow yourself only two Mississippi's to react appropriately is just dangerous at best (I'm trying not to be condescending). Yes, bikes can stop quicker than most cars....PROVIDED THEY HAVE TRACTION! Bikes also lose traction quicker than cars and if done with to the front tire you're almosty certain to go down.

True, we can only speculate about the actual cause of this tragic accident...but I stand behind the fact that even with an oil slick present the accident could have been avoided if a larger assured clear distance ahead was used in lieu of heavy braking.

Glad to hear you made it out without injury. Thank goodness for good riding gear, after all you never know when accidents can happen.

The gap is not the issue I think. 2 seconds is the gap recommended by our DSA, police, government and training schools. Yes it is the minimum gap but there are very few riders/drivers who leave anything like that much gap in rush hour traffic. If you leave any more then the drivers around you assume you are leaving a gap for them to come into.

As much as I would love to think it was oil (and who knows, it might have been as there was a big crash involving several cars in more or less the same place the previous day) I think it's much more likely that I did something stupid. Maybe I leaned the bike without noticing, even just a small nudge on the handlebars would be enough to dump it under hard braking.

I guess I just have to put up with the fact I won't ever know for sure what caused it. I've got a 'nice' long repair project ahead of me and I suffered no serious injuries so I should be a lot more grateful than I feel...
Thanks for the support chaps. I'll soon be back on the road and loving it all the more.

First of all Tarzan I am really glad you survived this accident unscathed, most important part of all!!!!

Dump the helmet, they are only made for one crash, and won't be safe to use again.

Just to put in my two cents worth, I always think the more distance between you and the vehicle ahead the better, the harder you must brake the greater the chance of a mishap, distance gives you an advantage.

On the other hand, I hit something on a wet road the other day, don't know what it was, sure as hell didn't see anything, but my back end started to fishtail, luckily it straightened itself out, felt like the tire grabbed some non-slick surface. I just stayed off the brakes and accelerator and kept looking forward. Have to admit it was a nasty feeling suddenly loosing traction like that. If I'd been braking, or it had been on a corner, I'd have been gone no doubt!!!

I agree with buelligan on the gap. I live in Seattle and primarily ride in heavy traffic, be it on the interstate or surface roads. I always leave a 5 or 6 car-length gap MINIMUM in front of me whether I'm in my Subaru wagon or on the bike. If anything I leave more on the bike. If I get passed, so be it, but I don't want any pothole or debris surprises. Plus, if you hit someone in the rear it's ALWAYS your fault as far as insurance is concerned. I'm not saying the gap is the cause of tarzan's accident, just that having a big gap is always a good idea. I don't have a bunch of stats in front of me, but anecdotally it seems to me that a large portion of accidents of every kind could be avoided if people didn't follow so close. My wife had 4 fender benders in five years... all minor but involving her front bumper and someone else's rear. Inevitably it was someone ahead stopping faster than she expected - I just told her to always leave enough room to stop in case someone stood on the brakes in the middle of the road. Three years and no accidents.... I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

cb360 - Having made that statement, now you are doomed.

DustyJacket wrote:cb360 - Having made that statement, now you are doomed.

Uh oh. At least let us hold out for another month - then I can renew our insurance at a discounted rate!

glad you're still with us