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I had a guy trying to tell me that the L in L-twin (or L-2) refers to the fact that the engine is mounted laterally while standing right next to the Monster I had for a while. He wouldn't believe me that the L referred to the 90 degree angle that the pistons formed. I actually wish more companies would use a short throw L-twin setup, I love the power and response you can get out of them.

And yes, a V-Twin is technically the term used for engines that share the one rod, and V-2 for all others that don't, but I don't think anyone really makes the distinction anymore. Another nice thing to know but being wrong is usually more accepted than trying to educate the masses, it seems...or perhaps I just have a certain way with people that makes them automatically call me a jackass no matter what I'm talking about.

jaskc78 wrote:I had a guy trying to tell me that the L in L-twin (or L-2) refers to the fact that the engine is mounted laterally while standing right next to the Monster I had for a while. He wouldn't believe me that the L referred to the 90 degree angle that the pistons formed.

It is called a L-Twin because it is tilted forward with the front cylinder parallel to the ground and it is shaped like a "L". Some still call it a V-Twin and that is correct also. Once the engine is tilted backwards, it will only be called a V-Twin.

Wrider wrote: Highside, yes they were Desmos, but so are the modern ones, the Desmo refers to the valves being opened AND closed by followers on camshafts in the top end of the engine instead of using valve springs...

I am aware that they are (having owned a few), but I thought that the comment was that the bevel drive twins were not desmos..... moving right along.

As for the L-Twin, V-twin, V-2 debate they are all V-twins in my books. Even my old 90deg. VTR1000 had V-2 written on the side of it. Ducati have called their V-twin an L-twin for years but it is essentially a wide V.

I believe that the "patent" that you guys are thinking of is Harley's attempt to trademark the potato sound in about the year 2000. They didn't get it in the end as Honda had already had a single crank-pin 45 deg. V-twin on the market for a few years at the time. And nobody has the patent on the v-twin configuration, and if they did it should be Indian who I believe were the first out of the gate.

High_Side wrote:

HYPERR wrote:LOL at the post after yours.

The guy is talking about the bevel drive Ducatis and calling it the Desmo.

It's late, I'm tired, but what am I missing here? The bevel drive twins were desmos.....

Yes you are tired my friend.


The guy said "Desmodromic Valve Train was a term used in the past by Ducati to indicate a shaft driven valve-train"

Desmo does not indicate a shaft driven valve train, the bevel does. Desmo as you very well know is the unique system Ducati uses for opening and closing the valves. Desmo can be both "shaft"(bevel) driven or belt driven.

Wrider wrote:Haven't looked up the actual patent but pretty sure it's a fact.

They've patented only the 45 degree V-Twin, not all V-Twin configs. The Honda Shadow is a 52 degree V-Twin, the Suzuki SV650 is a 90 degree V-Twin, etc. They all share the common crankpin setup but only Harley had the questionable audacity to patent theirs.

High_Side wrote: I believe that the "patent" that you guys are thinking of is Harley's attempt to trademark the potato sound in about the year 2000. They didn't get it in the end as Honda had already had a single crank-pin 45 deg. V-twin on the market for a few years at the time. And nobody has the patent on the v-twin configuration, and if they did it should be Indian who I believe were the first out of the gate.

Harley withdrew their application after 6 years of unsucessful litigation; with no end in sight it was deemed the best thing to do.

Crocker's were 45° engines as are most of the Suzuki Boulevard line. I think there was a Polish manufacturer that built 45° engines before WW2.

The Intruder 800 and the discontinued 1400 engines are 45 * now in the 50 inch Boulevards. The bigger Boulevard 90 and 109 inch engines are 54 *.

High_Side wrote:And nobody has the patent on the v-twin configuration, and if they did it should be Indian who I believe were the first out of the gate.

Was it Indian or japanese? Indian came out with the V-Twin in 1905. Matchless had a bike in 1905 using a japanese V-Twin. What I don't know is when Prestwich first made that V-Twin.

EDIT: I just did a search and it's neither Indian nor japanese who first came out with a V-Twin. They were both quite late coming out in 1905. The first V-Twin was made by Gottfried Daimler who was awarded a patent in 1889! That means a patent was only good for 16 years back then? It's about 20 years now, correct?

I find unbe-frackin-lieveable that we are discussing technology on a Harley Davidson.

But I guess you think CART and Indycar are the height of racing too.

That's not saying I wouldn't ride a harley, but not for tech, just to pretend I'm an outlaw like all you plywood factory workers (union Buy American-ista) and chartered accountants.

Edit by Johnj for content.