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WhyteGryphon wrote:In the hands of a newbie trying to figure out the best reaction to such a scare, a rapid closeoff or a panic brake is often the result and can get you into trouble very, very quickly.

WhyteGryphon wrote:At this speed, you better not panic. If you botch the slowdown from this error (either by a rapid rolloff or a shift), you can find yourself in serious trouble.

Great article! I enjoyed reading and it was really informative. I'm a soon to be beginner in street riding (but been riding dirt bikes since 9 yrs old) and am planning to get a used 250r or ex250.

I quoted a couple of passages from the article because I've read this numerous times now (like at least 4 times) and there seems to be bad consequences when cutting back the throttle completely. What happens when you do this? I've never had a prob with this on dirt bikes... I'm not sure if I've ever really done it but I must've, but then again I don't think I've ever gone past 50 mph on a dirt bike either (even when I ride them on streets ) Hope you guys can shed some light on this. Thanks!

c-los wrote:

WhyteGryphon wrote:In the hands of a newbie trying to figure out the best reaction to such a scare, a rapid closeoff or a panic brake is often the result and can get you into trouble very, very quickly.

WhyteGryphon wrote:At this speed, you better not panic. If you botch the slowdown from this error (either by a rapid rolloff or a shift), you can find yourself in serious trouble.

I quoted a couple of passages from the article because I've read this numerous times now (like at least 4 times) and there seems to be bad consequences when cutting back the throttle completely. What happens when you do this? I've never had a prob with this on dirt bikes... I'm not sure if I've ever really done it but I must've, but then again I don't think I've ever gone past 50 mph on a dirt bike either (even when I ride them on streets ) Hope you guys can shed some light on this. Thanks!

One of the biggest differences, especially if you are only used to riding two strokes, is that a four stroke, especially a high compression ratio four stroke (read: Supersport) will have a lot of engine braking. Two strokes have almost no engine braking (they don't slow down much when you snap the throttle shut)

If you are riding at speed on a fourstroke with a high compression ratio and then snap the throttle shut, the resulting engine braking can cause the back tire to suddenly lose traction and break loose on you. The bike wants to keep going, but the back tire wants to slow down right now!!

Because you've just lost traction with the rear wheel, you've probably also lost most of the damping ability of your rear suspension as the back tire skips and bounces around on you.

If you suddenly crack the throttle open again to try to get traction back, you will most likely just spin the back tire and it's going to want to go past the front tire. As soon as it gets traction again it's going to try to snap the bike back into a straight line, most likely sending you over the bike and onto the ground..

Great explanation, thanks for clearing that up for me!

What is the recovery technique for something like that, though? Is it one of those in-for-the-ride kinda things?

WhyteGryphon wrote:One of the biggest differences, especially if you are only used to riding two strokes, is that a four stroke, especially a high compression ratio four stroke (read: Supersport) will have a lot of engine braking. Two strokes have almost no engine braking (they don't slow down much when you snap the throttle shut)

For an extreme example of this, try it on a big high-compression twin

c-los wrote:Great explanation, thanks for clearing that up for me!

What is the recovery technique for something like that, though? Is it one of those in-for-the-ride kinda things?

If you can recover quickly enough, you may be able to ease the throttle on in an effort to regain traction at the back wheel without it spinning out on you.

You can also squeeze the clutch in. this will disengage the back wheel from the engine braking, allowing it to spin freely and regain traction. At this point, you should be able to gently apply the brakes and ride it out, as long as the situation that caused you to snap the throttle shut in the first place lets you.

One thing to keep in mind - if the back tire breaks loose on you, your rear brake isn't going to do much of anything to slow you down. If anything, you will be more likely to lock up the back wheel during one of its skips off the pavement. This can very quickly send you crashing to the ground.

Supersports have extremely light flywheels, too, which has an effect on the engine's ablity to change speeds rapidly, both accelerating and decelerating. The heavier the flywheel, the more cushion or buffer there will be when rapid changes of throttle occur.


c-los, recovery from a bad rear-wheel skid or spin while leaned over requires a presence of mind that most riders probably don't have. Ask around - lots of riders have experienced a high-side at one time or another, including yours truly. You really have to go against your instincts.

If you're on the rear brake when the rear tire breaks loose, your natural instinct is to let off the brake to regain traction. That would be fine if the wheels were in alignment, but that is rarely the case, so you need to keep the rear wheel sliding until they are. Best thing to do here is to stay hard on the rear brake and slide to a stop, or at least until you get the bike straight up and going in a straight line.

If the rear breaks traction under power, your instinct will tell you to roll off the throttle. Instead, it's best to keep the rear tire spinning until the bike is squared up again, at which point you can slow to a stop and go change your shorts.

The point is, in either case, a rider needs to avoid regaining traction when the bike is "crossed up," with the wheels pointing in different directions. The laws of physics simply won't allow this and the bike will attempt to stop immediately, and the rider's momentum will throw him over the "High Side."

In case you're wondering, this is one reason why we're so big on safety gear.

poppygene wrote: The point is, in either case, a rider needs to avoid regaining traction when the bike is "crossed up," with the wheels pointing in different directions. The laws of physics simply won't allow this and the bike will attempt to stop immediately, and the rider's momentum will throw him over the "High Side."

Hey are you guys talking about me behind my back?????

High_Side wrote: Hey are you guys talking about me behind my back?????

Well, yeah... in a manner of speaking!

WhyteGryphon wrote:
If you are riding at speed on a fourstroke with a high compression ratio and then snap the throttle shut, the resulting engine braking can cause the back tire to suddenly lose traction and break loose on you. The bike wants to keep going, but the back tire wants to slow down right now!!

Because you've just lost traction with the rear wheel, you've probably also lost most of the damping ability of your rear suspension as the back tire skips and bounces around on you.

If you suddenly crack the throttle open again to try to get traction back, you will most likely just spin the back tire and it's going to want to go past the front tire. As soon as it gets traction again it's going to try to snap the bike back into a straight line, most likely sending you over the bike and onto the ground..

In my opinion, I don't exactly agree with this.

Thanks to Poppygene for having a fairly reasonable example, including some realities of situations and riding techniques which can be shared with a beginner rider.

I may write more later, when i have time...

//monkey

*Post edited by mod* - attacking other members opinions isn't exactly constructive now, is it?

You may not agree with it, but I've seen it happen.