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iwannadie · Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:27 am

why cant people that beleive in God go along with evolution. why couldnt it be part of Gods plan to include evolution? back in the day the noah story could have been used to pacify people who couldnt grasp evolution and dna and all that back then. instead they get a nice story of a boat with animals and all that to go along with. now that we have come so far(we really have) we are capable of much more understanding and can see evolution is very real.

not to beat a dead horse, but the whole world being flat is a good example. people always said the bible doesnt mention anything beyond our earth but i dont think any one can deny the existance of planets now. people used to think the world was flat then that the world was the center of the universe etc. as we grow as a species we learn alot too and as we learn we need to remain open to new ideas. imagine the people who refused to beleive the earth was round... where did that get them in the end? did the people who beleived the earth was in fact round have to deny their faith in God? because they did surely go against the churchs of the time in saying the earth was round just as someone would go against the church now saying evolution is real.

Relsek · #122 Unread post by **Relsek** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:28 am

cb360 wrote:The problem comes with trying to argue about science with people of faith. There isn't any science in the bible.

Really, what Bible are you reading, or have you just heard this and have decided to spread it?

Kevin

iwannadie · Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:30 am

Relsek wrote:
cb360 wrote:The problem comes with trying to argue about science with people of faith. There isn't any science in the bible.
Really, what Bible are you reading, or have you just heard this and have decided to spread it?

Kevin

squeezing two of every creature onto a boat while the entire earth is covered in water for 40 days, then those creatures spreeding the earth and repopulating it is not very scientific im sorry.

nor is the parting of the red sea, water into wine, the tower that reached heaven etc.

not sure what science means to you?

Relsek · #124 Unread post by **Relsek** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:33 am

-Holiday wrote:
Relsek wrote:
Analog wrote:
All I know is that we have our own 'truths' that come from different sources,
On the issue of Creation or Evolution, It either is evolution, or it's not, and the same with creation. Whether we believe one or the other does not change which if either is the truth. Does that make any sense?

Kevin
it makes sense, except that we have to pick one of these for ourselves, since which one you pick hinges upon the existance of a God. If you don't believe we were Created by a God, you obviously cant belive in Creationism. But how can you tell someone that believing in God is wrong?
Thats the entire reason why these arguements exist, because we dont all agree on that one point. All we can do is question why people believe the things they do. The right answer for you is not really the right answer for everyone else.

We can argue Scientific facts, but we can not argue faith.

I understand why the arguments exist, some people say that what's truth to you isn't truth to me, I'm saying that truth is truth, no matter what you believe, it's up to you to investigate and decide which is the truth. Many people spend a lot of time in church and just believe all that they hear from the pulpit and believe it and feel no need for investigation, others may rely on their education feel no need for investigation. Neither way will show one the truth.

Kevin

Relsek · #125 Unread post by **Relsek** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:35 am

iwannadie wrote:
Relsek wrote:
cb360 wrote:The problem comes with trying to argue about science with people of faith. There isn't any science in the bible.
Really, what Bible are you reading, or have you just heard this and have decided to spread it?

Kevin
squeezing two of every creature onto a boat while the entire earth is covered in water for 40 days, then those creatures spreeding the earth and repopulating it is not very scientific im sorry.

nor is the parting of the red sea, water into wine, the tower that reached heaven etc.

not sure what science means to you?

I'm assuming then that what you meant wasn't that "There isn't any science in the bible" but that some things in the Bible can't be explained to your satisfaction by the Bible.

Relsek · #126 Unread post by **Relsek** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:37 am

iwannadie wrote:why cant people that beleive in God go along with evolution. why couldnt it be part of Gods plan to include evolution? back in the day the noah story could have been used to pacify people who couldnt grasp evolution and dna and all that back then. instead they get a nice story of a boat with animals and all that to go along with. now that we have come so far(we really have) we are capable of much more understanding and can see evolution is very real.

not to beat a dead horse, but the whole world being flat is a good example. people always said the bible doesnt mention anything beyond our earth but i dont think any one can deny the existance of planets now. people used to think the world was flat then that the world was the center of the universe etc. as we grow as a species we learn alot too and as we learn we need to remain open to new ideas. imagine the people who refused to beleive the earth was round... where did that get them in the end? did the people who beleived the earth was in fact round have to deny their faith in God? because they did surely go against the churchs of the time in saying the earth was round just as someone would go against the church now saying evolution is real.

Many Churches have taught many falsehoods, which church are you talking about?

-Holiday · Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:43 am

Relsek wrote:
-Holiday wrote:
Relsek wrote:
Analog wrote: I understand why the arguments exist, some people say that what's truth to you isn't truth to me, I'm saying that truth is truth, no matter what you believe, it's up to you to investigate and decide which is the truth. Many people spend a lot of time in church and just believe all that they hear from the pulpit and believe it and feel no need for investigation, others may rely on their education feel no need for investigation. Neither way will show one the truth.

Kevin

Absolutely agree with you.

The problem though with saying Truth is truth, is that truth is defined by the user. Not the definition of truth midn you, but your interpretation of what is truth.

But I wholeheartedly agree, get educated on both sides.Research Research.

Its just that some people read facts, but still fall back on faith.

Zootech wouldnt like this article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/ ... 43,00.html

And I absolutely agree. If we are to believe in ID (Creationism), lets put it up the the same Scientific tests that Evolution has passed for a century. Evolution is futherer prooving itself with every Scientific discovery every day. Anyone who believes otherwise does not at its root really understand what Science is. There is nothing Scientific about the existence of a God. this is faith. A feeling. There is EVERYTHING scientific about the physics, geology, biology etc etc of life and Earth.

Of course, that is just my interpretation of the Truth

You may see it differently

-Holiday · Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:47 am

Anyone have anything to say about this:

"There is no evidence in favour of intelligent design: only alleged gaps in the completeness of the evolutionary account, coupled with the "default" fallacy we have identified. And, while it is inevitably true that there are incompletenesses in evolutionary science, the positive evidence for the fact of evolution is truly massive, made up of hundreds of thousands of mutually corroborating observations. These come from areas such as geology, paleontology, comparative anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, ethology, biogeography, embryology and - increasingly nowadays - molecular genetics."

#129 Unread post by **cb360** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:49 am

Relsek wrote:
cb360 wrote:The problem comes with trying to argue about science with people of faith. There isn't any science in the bible.
Really, what Bible are you reading, or have you just heard this and have decided to spread it?

Kevin

Settle down. I haven't said anything pejorative about the bible. And I've read plenty of it if that matters. I simply meant it it isn't a science book. The bible is a lot of things and it contains a lot of things. There's some psalms, there's prose, there's poetry, some predictions, etc. But there's no science. And by science I mean...."The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena." So, ease up dude. Your book's honor is intact. I have not insulted anything or anyone. If the bible makes you happy, great, go read it, but calling it a science book is a bit disingenuous. Faith is the absence of science and proof. Geez.

iwannadie · Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:53 am

not to jump around alot in this thread but i was thinking about this.

adam and eve are always show as being White. is this supposed to be true that they were in fact white?

so saying that adam and eve were in fact white and all humans came from them. its been said on this forum that mutations do occur and lose of information causes changes to creat variations of species. so based on that everyone thats not white is a lesser version of someone who is white? a lose of information makes something less than the original.

would that be correct according to the theory of creation?