So who will it be for everyone this time?

for the Presidential Nominee?

Barack Obama
18
46%
John McCain
9
23%
Independent/other
6
15%
You don't care until November comes by...
0
No votes
Or you weren't planning to vote anyway.
6
15%
 
Total votes: 39

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Shorts
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#131 Unread post by Shorts »

sv-wolf wrote:
Shorts wrote:

The free market worked exactly as it was suppose to. It crashed in this case. The market is like the laws of physics, it just is. The people within this free market drove it wrong.

Sports cars can go real fast and be absolutely beautiful to watch. In the hands of a skilled driver that understand his limits, the car's limits, the track limits and utilizes correct judgement in order to keep that car not only on the road, but efficiently running at top pace, that car is wonderful.

You put that sports car in the hands of a newly licensed 16yr old kid, who hasn't developed the skills, who hasn't developed the understanding and maturity, and who doesn't make proper judgments - that kid plants the car head first into a light pole. Kid dead. Car totaled. Family sad and angry.


That sports car did what it was made to do. The car just is. The drivers manipulated that car and caused it either to stay on course or veer off.


When you take a system or a tool or an object and use it PROPER it is a great tool. But that tool does not work in a vacuum. We as people do not exist in a vacuum.

Don't let boneheads use your tools (or vacuum).
Unfortunately Shorts, I'd have to disagree (of course I would :lol: ). It's a nice idea but it bears no relation to the real world. The pronoucements of economists based on their theories about the 'mechanism' of the market have the same power to predict future events as the 'science' of astrology. I can't say, I'm therefore, very impressed.

A sports car has some straightforward controls and a single-person sitting behind them. The economy is very different. Like I said to ofblong, it is composed of billions of un-coordinated decisions with nobody fully aware from moment to moment what is happening elsewhere or what the results are going to be. And if the market 'mechanism' is like a law of physics then it is clearly derived from chaos theory.

The history of the last two hundred years has been the history of people trying to drive the 'free market' right. If there is any lesson to be learned from history it is that the 'free market' does not take any notice of anyone trying to drive it.

Left-wing politicians and right-wing politicans slug it out, arguing pointlessly about who has the best theories and the best policies. Every so often they do an about face and take up opposite positions as appears to be happening now. It's all a waste of time. What can a poor socialist do but watch and despair :? Ah well!

(On a more positive note you can rest assured that I'm certainly not going to let any bonehead use my tools ... :shock:)

The catch is, every person involved in the market is a driver, simple controls or not. The inexperience driver still crashed even with plainly laid out controls. Complication of controls wasn't the problem - the driver, his input and decisions were.

The controls aren't as important as the driver is. I'm going to kick back to our conversation a bit now about morality, ethics, finances etc that we had in the other section. Those qualities are still a factor and the results will rear their head in some form or another.


Whether or not the total mechanics of a system are understood, you do not jump in the deep end without accepting the risks of the unknown. It could be a small problem, it could be a big problem. But you KNOW there will be a problem. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction, in everything. Physics, emotion, people, objects. Everything has a consequence.

People matter. The person matters. The type of person matters. You got all the wrong people, the wrong motivations, the wrong decisions, the wrong spark in the wrong part of the forest and it'll be a catastrophe. Might be right away. Might be a long slow burn. But it will end up wrong.


Maybe I'm just wishful thinking that everyone in our our society, especially those who "represent me" haven't all sold me out and stabbed me in the back. Maybe I'm just grasping to find people I can trust.

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#132 Unread post by MZ33 »

Allow me to interrupt this weighty discussion to say:

The idiot who robo-calls (or whose live minions call) me the least, that idiot may be the one to get my vote. :rant: :evil: :bash: :censored: :banghead2: :wallbash:


Ahh, I feel much better now. Okay, now back to what ya'll were saying . . . :wink:
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#133 Unread post by Nalian »

All I can say is: there is no way we can sustain more of the same. And I know which pair is more than happy to lead us down that route. F that noise!

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#134 Unread post by blues2cruise »

Forgive my intrusion.....since I am Canadian and we don't have the gun thing in our constitution.....I just need to ask...

Are some of you making your choice based only on that one thing? The right to bear arms?

I also need to ask.....are you sure you really want someone like Palin as your VP (and potentially your President if the Pres can't fulfill his duties)?

Palin sounds like she needs a heck of a lot more experience before she can step into either of those positions.
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#135 Unread post by poet »

blues2cruise wrote:Palin sounds like she needs a heck of a lot more experience before she can step into either of those positions.
She needs more experience to be let out in public.

But... she is also not the one running for president McCain is.
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#136 Unread post by Johnj »

blues2cruise wrote:Forgive my intrusion.....since I am Canadian and we don't have the gun thing in our constitution.....I just need to ask...

Are some of you making your choice based only on that one thing? The right to bear arms?
I'm sure there are a couple of knuckleheads out of the 380 million Americans that will do so. So what.
People say I'm stupid and apathetic. I don't know what that means, and I don't care.
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#137 Unread post by Shorts »

Palin sounds like she needs a heck of a lot more experience before she can step into either of those positions.

Explain exactly what experience she needs to have and why she needs to have it.

Then tell me how Obama has the experience and why he has it.

BTW, Palin is for VP, Obama is for Pres. Tell me, do you worry that Obama will be KIO and Biden will have to take over? After all, there exist the possibility of a racially motivated assassination. I mean, lets just play honest on both sides. People think McCain is too old and will die soon. Let's put on the table how BO could die soon as well if there is constant inquiry of the VP moving up into the POTUS slot.

Are some of you making your choice based only on that one thing? The right to bear arms?

Explain to me what "the right to bear arms" means to you.

Then tell me how the ideologies of the parties are different.



I want to know how you understand these issues. I have further explanations, but I want to know what you think and why. Then I can tell you whether you're not understanding where I'm coming from, or I can confirm your understanding. Either way, I want to know what image it is you have of me and why I am voting.

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#138 Unread post by Nalian »

I feel comfortable with someone running for President who had 12 years of teaching constitutional law, 6 years of being a part of his State legislature, followed by time in the US Senate. I do think he lacks experience in some areas - and unsurprisingly Biden's experiences tend to compliment those weaknesses. Obama has shown he's more than capable of handling himself in quite a number of varied situations, and is able to talk to almost anyone on any level. McCain is, of course, also capable of that. His running mate...not so much at all.

I am not sure what Sarah Palin brings to John McCain's ticket other than a skirt/Bush with watermellons. Palin makes me unhappy because she makes wild statements - probably because she's under pressure - that make no sense and she has no ability to back up. Then she gets upset and blaims the media for asking the questions. For example - If someone says to you "I have foreign policy experience because of my time as Governor" and someone says "Okay, how?" you should not come up with some stick-and-bull story about how Russia flies over your state. Especially when that story is just turned around and shot down by NORAD.

Really though, the above wouldn't matter a whole lot because I'm an issue voter, like many folks. I don't care about the 2nd amendment right now. I think it should remain - and I don't really see Obama/Biden as doing a lot to actively change the 2nd amendment.

I do, however, see two people running who want to remove a woman's right to choose. I see people who want to make my marriage completely invalid on a federal level. I see two people who are happy to keep claiming they're helping out the middle class with more of the same from the past 8 years, when quite clearly the past 8 years have done no favors for the middle class. They run around making statements about their opponent associating with terrorists and try to make a huge deal over the ACORN voting scandal. Its amazing how short John McCain's memory is in regards to his own associations with ACORN. The short sightedness of folks like "Joe the Plumber" and that whole mess just help to confirm the way I already felt.

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#139 Unread post by blues2cruise »

Shorts wrote:
Palin sounds like she needs a heck of a lot more experience before she can step into either of those positions.

Explain exactly what experience she needs to have and why she needs to have it.

Then tell me how Obama has the experience and why he has it.

BTW, Palin is for VP, Obama is for Pres. Tell me, do you worry that Obama will be KIO and Biden will have to take over? After all, there exist the possibility of a racially motivated assassination. I mean, lets just play honest on both sides. People think McCain is too old and will die soon. Let's put on the table how BO could die soon as well if there is constant inquiry of the VP moving up into the POTUS slot.

Are some of you making your choice based only on that one thing? The right to bear arms?

Explain to me what "the right to bear arms" means to you.

Then tell me how the ideologies of the parties are different.



I want to know how you understand these issues. I have further explanations, but I want to know what you think and why. Then I can tell you whether you're not understanding where I'm coming from, or I can confirm your understanding. Either way, I want to know what image it is you have of me and why I am voting.


:shock:


Whoa! I have no image at all......I was just asking a simple question....guns are not a part of our collective psyche here, so I was just asking a question...... :roll: that's all.
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#140 Unread post by blues2cruise »

Johnj wrote:
blues2cruise wrote:Forgive my intrusion.....since I am Canadian and we don't have the gun thing in our constitution.....I just need to ask...

Are some of you making your choice based only on that one thing? The right to bear arms?
I'm sure there are a couple of knuckleheads out of the 380 million Americans that will do so. So what.
Likewise......sheesh..I was just asking a simple question..... :roll:
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