Total Motorcycle Community Forums

beginner wrote:I haven't spent money on a book yet because they all seem focused on surviving on public roads. I'm looking for a book focused on slow speed skills.

Honestly, since you obviously already know what's in them, why waste the money buying them?

I'm going to have to re-read the Twist Of The Wrist books again. I somehow got the mistaken impression they were about high performance riding nowhere near traffic, like on race tracks or something. How could I have missed the point so badly?

Actually, there is a Twist Of The Wrist DVD (which I own) and I totally missed the parts of it that were focused on surviving on the public roads. Then again, I've only watched it about 5 or 6 times...

beginner wrote:I mentioned this because it's worthwhile to encourage everybody to practice and I think official demonstrations, freely available on youtube, would help.

I'm afraid that doing so would create more people like you.

I haven't spent money on a book yet because they all seem focused on surviving on public roads.

You want to see the handbook, but you don't want to buy it... you can still go look at it at the store or check it out of a library. You'll be surprised on how much of these two books are technical oriented. Yes, you are expected to use these skills on the street or on a track b/c 5 mph in parking lot does not a motorcyclist make.

The only word for this is stunning.

Paging beginner. Your naivety is showing

CaptCrashIdaho wrote:

beginner wrote:
I'm surprised nobody has quibbled with my countersteering description.

Nobody tried for the same reason Dr. Van Helsing never tried to talk Renfield out of eating bugs...

To quote Samuel Clemons,

"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig."

CaptCrashIdaho wrote:For those interested in Countersteering, here is a wonderful resource: http://www.superbikeschool.com/machiner ... achine.php

Keith Code writes:"The rider does a very swoopy upper body swing in the direction he wishes to go but for an agonizing (to me) moment, nothing happens."

Actually something does happen, the bike tries to lean in the opposite direction from the desired turn. When racers shift body weight to the inside of a turn they must also countersteer to force the bike to lean in the same direction. The net effect is a turn with reduced lean angle.

Keith Code writes: "Riders have a number of ideas, which are vague and hard for them to describe, on just how their weight shifting accomplish this so called body-steering."

In the first place it's body leaning, not body steering. It's commonly known as counter balancing. If the rider shifts upper body weight to the left the bike wants to lean the opposite way, to the right. That's counter balancing and it will influence the lean angle of all two wheeled bicycles and motorcycles without exception.

The BS bike isn't needed to prove that shifting body weight to one side doesn't turn (or lean) the bike in the same direction. That's the lesson of counter balancing.

Hey guys,

Beginner has just surpassed the MSF, Lee Parks, Keith Code, nick ienatsch, and every forum on the internet in the matter of motorcycle knowledge. Let's stop the as we fail to be enlightened. Hopefully someone up in Michigan will post the obit so we can one day have closure.

Cheers,
Storys

beginner wrote:Actually something does happen, the bike tries to lean in the opposite direction from the desired turn. When racers shift body weight to the inside of a turn they must also countersteer to force the bike to lean in the same direction. The net effect is a turn with reduced lean angle.

Keith Code writes: "Riders have a number of ideas, which are vague and hard for them to describe, on just how their weight shifting accomplish this so called body-steering."

In the first place it's body leaning, not body steering. It's commonly known as counter balancing. If the rider shifts upper body weight to the left the bike wants to lean the opposite way, to the right. That's counter balancing and it will influence the lean angle of all two wheeled bicycles and motorcycles without exception.

The BS bike isn't needed to prove that shifting body weight to one side doesn't turn (or lean) the bike in the same direction. That's the lesson of counter balancing.

Ummm..

Not really.

Unless, of course, you can back it up with a YouTube video.

Watch for yourselves and decide: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nRUeEkS644

Remember, the first time you'll see him lift his hands up and put them on a pair of handle bars that are mounted to the frames. He's change his body position to try and move the bike--not much luck.

The second time he uses the normal handle bars mounted to the triple clamp...oddly the motorcycle swerves when steered...

For those of you that travel at speeds greater than 15mph, find a long straight stretch of road and gently press on one side or the other of the bars. You'll feel the bike move in the direction you press. TAKE NOTE: these are not massive inputs, it doesn't take much energy to move the bike one way or the other.

This skill is praticularly valuable when you need to swerve around an obstacle in the road.

Here's some stuff from Nick Ienatsch in an article called Urban Guerilla (emphasis added):

URBAN GUERRILLA BONUS STEP: PRACTICE

When everything goes wrong and the above five steps fail to keep you in safety's arms, you'd better be a good motorcycle rider. Get to an empty parking lot and practice braking; take a Motorcycle Safety Foundation Experienced RiderCourse. Experiment with flicking lane changes. Become intimately familiar with the effects of countersteering, experimenting with differing pressures on the handgrips. Practice quick glances in the mirrors and hurried looks over your shoulder, as if you were initiating an emergency lane change. Use your turn signals in all conditions so that you'll remember to cancel them when things get stressful. Know the route you and your neighborhood commuters take on the way to the freeway and study the mistakes being made; when you're not on your bike, watch traffic patterns and instances that would get a rider in trouble.
All this is practice, and it's just as important for the urban guerrilla as it is for the expert-level roadracer. You can't win a trophy with your commuting prowess, but you can step out of the car or bus and add two irreplaceable things to your life: time and enjoyment.

This article was originally published in the August 1995 issue of Sport Rider.

CaptCrashIdaho wrote:Watch for yourselves and decide: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nRUeEkS644

Counter balancing and counter steering both LEAN the bike. The rider in that video moved around but kept his body centered over the bike except for his little wiggle wobble at the end, which was an oscillation, not a lean. If he had shifted his body weight sufficiently to one side and left it there the bike would have leaned the opposite way enough to be visible. The rider never did that, he never counter balanced so the bike didn't lean.

CaptCrashIdaho wrote:Here's some stuff from Nick Ienatsch in an article called Urban Guerilla (emphasis added):URBAN GUERRILLA BONUS STEP: PRACTICE

I'm sure all the books mention practice. I'd go farther, elaborate on the practice theme more. Practice guidelines can have goals and benchmarks, estimated hours and competence levels for various drills. A book full of that would be interesting.

beginner wrote:

CaptCrashIdaho wrote:Watch for yourselves and decide: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nRUeEkS644

Counter balancing and counter steering both LEAN the bike. The rider in that video moved around but kept his body centered over the bike except for his little wiggle wobble at the end, which was an oscillation, not a lean. If he had shifted his body weight sufficiently to one side and left it there the bike would have leaned the opposite way enough to be visible. The rider never did that, he never counter balanced so the bike didn't lean.

How is it that you've been riding for a few months and understand how a motorcycle works better than people who have studied for decades?

If your intellect is truly this keen, perhaps you should apply it to some other subject which has baffled humanity, such as curing cancer or the common cold, or developing toast that won't land butter side down when dropped...