Total Motorcycle Community Forums

LDS wrote:I've got an awesome toaster. If you cut a bagel just right, you can open the halves like a book without separating them. It looks kind of like, well, you know, a figure eight...

I was going to take the Toaster Safety Foundations Basic Toaster Course but I think that GE is pushing them to make the test too easy...

storysunfolding wrote:While obviously still learning, I like this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3ns_82h ... annel_page

Figure eights are much harder on sport bikes.

I wonder what the diameter of those circles are - I'd love to set this up somewhere and give it a run a few times.

RhadamYgg

RhadamYgg wrote:

storysunfolding wrote:While obviously still learning, I like this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3ns_82h ... annel_page

Figure eights are much harder on sport bikes.

I wonder what the diameter of those circles are - I'd love to set this up somewhere and give it a run a few times.

RhadamYgg

Looks like about 20 feet.

Figure it out the CIA way. Bike at the top of the circle, pause, measure how long the bike is as a ratio to the circle, find out the length of the bike--PRESTO!

I'm guessing 20ft is about right.

wtf wasnt this thead just like 5 pages long???? now its 12. I missed a heck of alot and well I dont plan on going back and reading 6 pages of well crap haha.

MrShake wrote:1. Learning to ride a bike using "Youtube" as your source of information has got to be the worst idea I've ever heard of.

I learn from watching other riders. The most convenient place for me to do that is youtube.

2. If you have to "Force" the bike to lean, your not steering right.

The choice of words is not the point. If the rider shifts body weight to the right the bike leans to the left. From there, if the rider then wants to make a right turn he'll have to counter steer to change the leftward lean of the bike to the right because the bike wants to be leaning in the direction its turning.

3. If you've never gone over 30mph, then your counter-steering experience is limited

Counter balancing and counter steering both lean the bike at any speed. Counter steering is less effective at slow speeds, counter balancing is less effective as speed increases. Up to 30 mph on my bike counter balancing is effective at leaning the bike. That's what I use consciously most of the time. Counter steering and counter balancing are the two techniques for initiating a lean. Leaning is necessary for turning but not sufficient. To have a turn there also has to be a steering change.[/quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd3KcTPIyJ8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAQhQBGtOXA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUAevtxsM-A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-Wwk2cpIss


Be safe.

beginner wrote:

MrShake wrote:1. Learning to ride a bike using "Youtube" as your source of information has got to be the worst idea I've ever heard of.

I learn from watching other riders. The most convenient place for me to do that is youtube.

Youtube offers you no feedback, thats the reason its not a valid teacher

beginner wrote:

2. If you have to "Force" the bike to lean, your not steering right.

The choice of words is not the point. If the rider shifts body weight to the right the bike leans to the left. From there, if the rider then wants to make a right turn he'll have to counter steer to change the leftward lean of the bike to the right because the bike wants to be leaning in the direction its turning.

What you are saying here is not true. If I am riding down the road on the way to work and I "Lean" to the right, this shifting my weight. My bike will lean to the right. I add to that a counter steer of pushing on the right handlebar to aid in that lean. These things are not exclusive.
Now, you often talk about "Counter Balancing". Again, not a force, but a different movement. Used to control the lean angle in slow speed maneuvers or in REALLY tight corners. It is NOT a method of initiating a turn, but a control of lean maneuver.

beginner wrote:

3. If you've never gone over 30mph, then your counter-steering experience is limited

Counter balancing and counter steering both lean the bike at any speed. Counter steering is less effective at slow speeds, counter balancing is less effective as speed increases. Up to 30 mph on my bike counter balancing is effective at leaning the bike. That's what I use consciously most of the time. Counter steering and counter balancing are the two techniques for initiating a lean. Leaning is necessary for turning but not sufficient. To have a turn there also has to be a steering change.

[/quote]

Beginner,
I'm beginning to understand what your doing here. Your trying to apply advanced techniques to simple, every day events. You like to believe your experiencing rear tire slip at slow speeds. You like to believe a tire change is going to give you more torque. You like to believe that advanced counterbalancing is necessary for a simple turn.
I think you've got this idea in your head of what it means to ride a motorcycle. Its filled with input from youtube videos of advanced techniques and what you perceive as the idea riding style. In reality, your dual-sport small bike, in a rural setting is not in a position to replicate any of what they are doing, yet you want to apply what their experiencing to what your experiencing SO MUCH that your fooling yourself.
I can't beg of you any more than I have to go take an MSF or equivalent motorcycle course. Work on fixing your bad habits and wrong techniques, and then get back to the practice you enjoy. I am very glad that you enjoy practice as much as you do. Practice (when done correctly) can do nothing but help you. But practice when done incorrectly is only going to get you hurt or worse when you get into a bad situation and react badly due to bad foundational technique.

Like falling out of bed in the morning, you'll get hurt. And we don't want that to happen. Really we don't.

MrShake wrote:Youtube offers you no feedback, thats the reason its not a valid teacher

Youtube is not a teacher, it is a place to watch the riding of others.

If I am riding down the road on the way to work and I "Lean" to the right, this shifting my weight. My bike will lean to the right.

If you shift upper body weight to the right the bike will lean to the left.

I add to that a counter steer of pushing on the right handlebar to aid in that lean.

Pushing foward on the right grip leans the bike to the right (actually 'rolls' the bike would be more correct) and counter act the earlier counter balance that leaned the bike to the left.

It (counter balancing) is NOT a method of initiating a turn, but a control of lean maneuver.

Isn't that what I've beens saying all along? Counter balancing leans the bike. It does not, by itself, turn the bike. The same is true for counter steering.

Your trying to apply advanced techniques to simple, every day events.

Understanding is what's hard.

You like to believe your experiencing rear tire slip at slow speeds.

Everybody who turns a motorcyle experiences rear tire slip. Not everybody is aware of it.

You like to believe a tire change is going to give you more torque.

Different tires have more or less rolling resistance. Lower rolling resistance can make a difference in the amount of torque available for acceleration.

You like to believe that advanced counterbalancing is necessary for a simple turn.

You would need to define "advanced" counterbalancing. Sometimes I lean the bike by counter steering but mosty by counter balancing. Other people may lean the bike mostly by counter steering.

But practice when done incorrectly is only going to get you hurt or worse when you get into a bad situation and react badly due to bad foundational technique.

I managed at least 150 hours of PLP last season. It was worth all the time spent. I don't agree with advising people they shouldn't practice because they might do it wrong. If you are going to say that you should say people should not ride at all because they might do it wrong.