some too cool beginner bikes.

[black mariah]

They're 125cc two strokes mostly designed and built for track use. What makes them beginner bikes?

Relatively low seat heights, light weights, not much horsepower... I don't care if the throttle IS "razor sharp", it's still 33HP which is LESS than the more "beginner friendly" Ninja 250. The only difference is that with the 125's you learn faster not to wing the throttle open.

I'd kill for one of those Derbis. That thing's damn sexy.

How the hell is it these things exist in Europe? I thought that Euro emissions standards were tighter than US ones were...

[BigChickenStrips]

i ride my bike on the road. as track bikes those are all sweet. but most people who take up riding spend time on the street with the beginner bike THEN get a nicer bike and go to the track.

[TechTMW]

Euro emissions are a bit looser on the two-strokes because people still rely on cheap two-strokes as daily transportation. These race bikes take advantage of that. Though they have phased out completely the bigger 2-stroke bikes (Like the killer rsv250 of years gone by)

[Big B]

i'm actually amazed verm showed as much restraint as he did. when i saw the title of the thread, and who started it, i figured on seeing a couple of liter bikes and a tomahawk.

[Sev]

They're 125cc two strokes mostly designed and built for track use. What makes them beginner bikes?

Relatively low seat heights, light weights, not much horsepower... I don't care if the throttle IS "razor sharp", it's still 33HP which is LESS than the more "beginner friendly" Ninja 250. The only difference is that with the 125's you learn faster not to wing the throttle open.

I'd kill for one of those Derbis. That thing's damn sexy.

How the hell is it these things exist in Europe? I thought that Euro emissions standards were tighter than US ones were...

So... we're taking a lighter bike, and dropping a twitchy throttle onto it. Why do we not recomend supersports again? Ohhh, that's right, they're relatively light, and they are really responsive on the clutch/throttle."

I've ridden around for a bit on a ninja 250 that puts out a whopping 26HP to the rear wheel. Yes, that's right a ninja 250 has 26 bhp, though it's higher at the crank.

What I'm getting at here, is that just because it's a little bike doesn't mean it's a good bike to be riding. Isn't MotoGP dropping down to 250's sometime in the near future... does that mean those would be good bikes to learn on?

You want to learn on a 2-stroke, get a dirtbike.

[black mariah]

So... we're taking a lighter bike, and dropping a twitchy throttle onto it. Why do we not recomend supersports again? Ohhh, that's right, they're relatively light, and they are really responsive on the clutch/throttle."

Are you seriously putting single-cylinder 125cc two strokes in the same category as 600cc inline fours? PLEASE tell me you're not trying to take it down that route.

I've ridden around for a bit on a ninja 250 that puts out a whopping 26HP to the rear wheel. Yes, that's right a ninja 250 has 26 bhp, though it's higher at the crank.

The rating I always heard for a Ninja 250 was 36HP. That may be the rating at the crank, and I don't doubt the same is true for these 125's.

What I'm getting at here, is that just because it's a little bike doesn't mean it's a good bike to be riding. Isn't MotoGP dropping down to 250's sometime in the near future... does that mean those would be good bikes to learn on?

You want to learn on a 2-stroke, get a dirtbike.

Okay, so MotoGP is moving to highly modified bikes of twice the displacement of what we're talking about. That has nothing to do with the thread and mentioning it is just silly. That's the equivalent of saying "Don't get a Ninja 250! Those MotoGP guys use 500's and those aren't good beginner bikes!"

Since pretty much everyone here is just talking out of their "O Ring", is there anyone that has ridden one of these things and can comment on how "twitchy" the throttle response is? I can't see it being too terribly bad, although the *POWER DELIVERY* may scare the hell outta some n00bs.

[MattL]

OMG! They must be beginner bikes because their only 125cc!! That makes them weak and under powered!

[VermilionX]

OMG! They must be beginner bikes because their only 125cc!! That makes them weak and under powered!

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more tame than the bike i started on.

seriously... it's 33hp. how unforgiving could it be?

[black mariah]

OMG! They must be beginner bikes because their only 125cc!! That makes them weak and under powered!

No, what makes them weak and underpowered is their horsepower ratings. Look, you can all act like these things are instadeath machines but the fact is that they have less power than most of the "beginner" machines that are held in high regard around here. I understand that they're slightly more of a handful due to the nature of two stroke engines but an idiot can injure or kill themselves on ANYTHING, yes even a Ninja 250 or a damn Honda Rebel.

[MattL]

OMG! They must be beginner bikes because their only 125cc!! That makes them weak and under powered!

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more tame than the bike i started on.

seriously... it's 33hp. how unforgiving could it be?

Verm, honestly people bash the hell out of you, somtimes for good reason, other times not. Though you never seem to get mad.. You do seem to have quite the carefree laughable attitude.